I would also agree. I know a few guys who's run hawk pads on their track only cars and are happy. The concensous I've gotten from people I know and asking around pagid is by far the most popular and we'll liked race pad manufacturer. I'm torn between getting a set of pads vs a front Rotora 355 6 pot kit.
7
brake pads for the track?
- Thread starter victorofhavoc
- Start date
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
DTC hawks aren't exactly street friendly. Below 400 degrees they have almost no bite at all. I've had the dtc 60 and in weather below 60 degrees, I have to ride the brakes for a good while before they start to have normal levels of bite. You can find a decent temp range chart on the hawk site. They are not at all recommended for street use.
I can't find pagid rears for our cars. I've tried. If anyone has a source, let me know. I've found the Porterfield (same parent company and very similar pad), but they're only the R4 and they're still hard to find.
Go for pads, fluid, ducting, those ti shims, good rotors, and ss lines before you even think about a BBK,especially if the BBK you find isn't properly matched for the Bosch abs balance we have from the factory. Take a look at grass roots motorsport, and you'll find numerous articles talking specifically about increased stopping distances, faster wear, and imbalanced rotors from some of the cheaper and universal BBK out there (including brembo). Replacing our stock caliper design requires similar volume of fluid in the caliper, and most 6 pot designs have much larger volume. If your rear stay the same size, you now have more fluid that needs to get pumped into the front caliper to cause the same compression as before, but your abs won't automatically appropriate. This means you'll need more pedal pressure to get the same caliper pressure across the pad, while your rears will keep providing the same pressure they did before. You can combat this with more aggressive front pads, but then you'll have to test out numerous combinations in order to balance the trail brake oversteer/understeer.
I have a lines, ebf600, stoptech slotted, ds2500's, and rs3 ducts. Rotora bbk is run by Zac and Darryl for time attack on their GTI and R respectively and they have given me feedback on the kits and how awesome they are. They have had applied, brembo, prodigy werks, and ttrs bbk's before the rotora ones.
jmason
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Frederick, MD
In my experience, for normal street driving, the DTC-60 work fine. By normal street driving, I mean commuting to work. In that scenario, I am not asking much of the brakes. They are noisy and generate a fair amount of dust. I only run the Hawks on the street because they are too worn for track use but sufficient for the street and I'm just trying to get the most wear out of them before discarding them.
Going back to an earlier comment you made, my 330mm Brembos work fine in both street and track driving. No impact on brake balance front to rear. Pedal travel is just right.
Please be careful with your sweeping generalizations.
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
I've never put on a set of Rotora. I know a few guys in the miata world who have, and it seems to be a mixed bag of happy and not, but the guys winning races are usually on stoptech. They may or may not work well for this platform, I have no idea.
The DTC-60 are absolutely not a street pad. You can choose to run anything not street friendly on the street, but for the sake of others' safety, i would never tell them to. They take a decent amount of heat to have any stopping power at all. On a chilly morning, they wouldn't stop my wrx from 15 mph until they had enough heat in them. Here's a temp chart that shows mu and temp:
330mm? so smaller than the stock 340mm? 4 piston design? Similar volume to stock? Brake balance is not an opinion. Saying a much larger volume can negatively affect brake performance and recommending to choose a manufacturer that actually tests a specific setup is just common sense, not a generalization.
Zac and Darryl are winning their time attack series running the rotora kits so they definitely seem to be working for this platform.
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
SCCA, NASA, GTA, or other? I haven't heard of Zac and Darryl, so just curious who/where in case I run into them.
Glad to hear some sort of option is working.
To follow up on my situation quickly, I contacted the manufacturer of my rotors, DBA (mine are the 4000 T3 in 312x25mm) and they've instructed me to remove the rotors and sand them down with 240 grit emery paper to remove the pad deposit. Should be a somewhat easy fix which I'm happy about. They said that the deposit happens when the pad/rotor temp exceeds the limit of the bonding resins in the pad. Basically, the brakes overheated ... surprise, surprise. Nothing to worry about they said, the rotor is still tip-top and they're big fans of the MX72.
Having noted this, are there any cooling duct kits for the MK7 that you don't have to hack apart your bumper to install? I'll remove dust shields when I take the brakes apart to clean the rotors, but it might be time to look into additional cooling. I spent the good part of a grand on front rotors and pads ... not looking to change the hardware anytime soon.
BTW @ victorofhavoc: thanks for the info on page 2. Lots to digest there.
Having noted this, are there any cooling duct kits for the MK7 that you don't have to hack apart your bumper to install? I'll remove dust shields when I take the brakes apart to clean the rotors, but it might be time to look into additional cooling. I spent the good part of a grand on front rotors and pads ... not looking to change the hardware anytime soon.
BTW @ victorofhavoc: thanks for the info on page 2. Lots to digest there.
Last edited:
RS3 air guides fit our cars quite nicely. Few posts available on here with some DIYs/users that have installed them. I have them and it's super easy, even with 312mm brakes you don't need to cut the ducts themselves. Some recommend cutting as the calipers will hit the duct if you have the car raised and wheels turned, but this suspension situation won't happen under normal driving conditions. I have a 2015 and didn't have to cut anything.
TT-RS air guides also fit, but there's a debate about whether these or the RS3 actually direct more air at the brakes.
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41323
Both from Canada. ZacR is on the forums here (check his build thread) and Darryl isn't to my knowledge.
https://www.instagram.com/zac_ross_racing/
https://www.instagram.com/darryl_mk7r/
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
looks like they're running CSCS and gridlife, so I probably won't end up running into them
. I looked into gridlife, but the events are all just too spread out from my location. They have the most lax rules out of any organization I've driven with previously, though, which can be a good thing.Yeah gridlife is pretty chill. They like the kits and have them and MCS as sponsors and have pretty rave reviews of the kits so hence my reasoning to go with them + the fact rotora is having a summer sale so it puts it at the stupid cheap price point for bbk since they never seem to go on sale.looks like they're running CSCS and gridlife, so I probably won't end up running into them
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
yeah gridlife seems to attract a much younger audience. It's a good thing for the sport, but sometimes the stricter rules are quite necessary with the other organizations. I like the NASA TT model vs the SCCA build to class setup, but to each their own, as long as we're all racing and having fun
.Where are you finding the rotora setup? I've talked to them on the phone before and they only had their street series BBK for the mk7 GTI (328x25), which they didn't recommend for mostly track use, especially since the stock brakes are larger. Did they come out with a track focused setup for it? AP Racing and Stoptech both said they'd make a kit to fit the 17" wheels with appropriate sizing, but AP was a crazy price. Stoptech pricing was cheap at the time, but there were other things I needed to do first then.
Street challenge prices. Their racing caliper is basically add $1000 to those prices for the lightweight ones (15% lighter) without piston seals and can fit the super thick pads. One of the rare ones to offer a rear bbk setup also. They also make rear rotors and pads for our car as well if you want matching rotors.yeah gridlife seems to attract a much younger audience. It's a good thing for the sport, but sometimes the stricter rules are quite necessary with the other organizations. I like the NASA TT model vs the SCCA build to class setup, but to each their own, as long as we're all racing and having fun
Where are you finding the rotora setup? I've talked to them on the phone before and they only had their street series BBK for the mk7 GTI (328x25), which they didn't recommend for mostly track use, especially since the stock brakes are larger. Did they come out with a track focused setup for it? AP Racing and Stoptech both said they'd make a kit to fit the 17" wheels with appropriate sizing, but AP was a crazy price. Stoptech pricing was cheap at the time, but there were other things I needed to do first then.
Why do you want to stay 17" out of curiosity?
Last edited:
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
Those aren't bad prices at all. Was that from their site/product catalog? I wasn't able to find the higher end stuff there, just street challenge. I may be searching incorrectly or something...
17" wheels are lighter and cheaper so they have a small advantage there. The real advantage for me is on the tire end. There are a lot more tires available in the 245/40/17 and 255/40/17 size than there are in 245/35/18 and 255/35/18. The prices are also a lot lower on the 17" tire setups. Marginal benefits also include the increased sidewall height for a much more comfortable street going ride as well as extra wheel protection when dropping off a rumble strip or edge of a track. I run Direzza Z3 tires currently (took a chance on them early), and they're not exactly "comfortable" in a 245/40 when inflated to spec. I can imagine what a 245/35 would be like with a stiff tire...probably similar to my old Hoosiers. 12mm sidewall difference can be pretty huge.