brake pads for the track?

[victorofhavoc]

Does anyone know what brands and types of brake pads we have available to us? I'm struggling to find decent options for the PP GTI. G-loc only makes the fronts. Ferodo only makes the DS2500. Carbotech will make me pads, but wants my arm, leg, and left testicle to do it.

I've tried multiple variations of EBC and Hawk over the years with multiple cars, and recently on the GTI as well, and they have all been terrible for sustained heat. Autocross and street sure, but not sustained heat lap after lap.

Anyone familiar with the ferodo ds2500? They seem to be more of an autocross and street pad, but i wonder how they might hold up under track use?

 

[Cliff]

Anyone familiar with the ferodo ds2500? They seem to be more of an autocross and street pad, but i wonder how they might hold up under track use?

I've done 31 days with Ferodo DS2500 front pads on my modified stage 1 Golf R, and for 11 of those days I had Ferodo pads both front and rear. I have never experienced pad fade with these. Pad material transfer has been an issue with other brands of pads (Porterfield R4-S and stock) but it has not been a problem with the Ferodos. I got 6 days out of my last set of front pads which included 1 day at Laguna Seca, a track that is very hard on brakes.

They work fine as dual duty pads and I don't need to swap in track pads before an HPDE event. I'm a happy customer. Fwiw, I am an instructor with the California Audi club chapters, and I run in advanced run groups with other organizations.

 

[Chuckable]

I've done 31 days with Ferodo DS2500 front pads on my modified stage 1 Golf R, and for 11 of those days I had Ferodo pads both front and rear. I have never experienced pad fade with these. Pad material transfer has been an issue with other brands of pads (Porterfield R4-S and stock) but it has not been a problem with the Ferodos. I got 6 days out of my last set of front pads which included 1 day at Laguna Seca, a track that is very hard on brakes.



They work fine as dual duty pads and I don't need to swap in track pads before an HPDE event. I'm a happy customer. Fwiw, I am an instructor with the California Audi club chapters, and I run in advanced run groups with other organizations.

Do you think your advanced level of experience and driving style contribute to the durability of the pads?

And how are those pads on your rotors?


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[Cliff]

Do you think your advanced level of experience and driving style contribute to the durability of the pads?

And how are those pads on your rotors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not likely - any improvements in braking technique are likely offset by speed increases. The pads seem pretty rotor friendly.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Not likely - any improvements in braking technique are likely offset by speed increases. The pads seem pretty rotor friendly.

Very nice. Gives me confidence in skimming my stock rotors rather than purchasing new ones.

Did you measure temps at all after the laguna Seca event? Supposedly they have a coefficient of friction of 0.5 average and drop off with smooth taper after 1000F. I used the stockers at a recent event and they were smoking, even in the wet. Coming down from a straight at 117mph, my front left pads stuck...that had some pucker factor for a second.

 

[Cliff]

Very nice. Gives me confidence in skimming my stock rotors rather than purchasing new ones.

Did you measure temps at all after the laguna Seca event? Supposedly they have a coefficient of friction of 0.5 average and drop off with smooth taper after 1000F. I used the stockers at a recent event and they were smoking, even in the wet. Coming down from a straight at 117mph, my front left pads stuck...that had some pucker factor for a second.

I did, as a matter of fact. After driving around the paddock for a bit, rotor temps were down to 775 degrees. My brakes, while stock, are in the process of getting sorted. I've got a big long brake thread here: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9078617-Mk7-Golf-R-brake-cooling-for-tracked-car

I was up at The Ridge near Tacoma, WA last summer. The track features a long front straight where I was seeing 135 before heading into a complex of turns heading up the hill. The brakes were fine.

 

[R Golf]

Another fan of the Ferodo DS2500. Zero fade even on advanced 7 session day at Summit Point in 90 degrees. Rotors measured near 900 degrees. Also, make sure you follow the pretty aggressive break in of the pads that Ferodo recommends.

I did experience pad material transfer about a month ago, also at Summit. Huge vibration, but zero issue with stopping AND it burned off after about 4 laps. Totally fine the rest of the day and ever since.

Upgrade to high temp fluid is a must of course or you will rum into boiling pretty quickly. I'm guessing you have already done this, but worth mentioning. I have had great results with Motul RBF600.

 

[CDM MK7]

Endless MX72 is also an option to look into. Probably the best dual duty pads I’ve ever used. Zero fade on track. Whisper quiet on the street.

 

[victorofhavoc]

I did, as a matter of fact. After driving around the paddock for a bit, rotor temps were down to 775 degrees. My brakes, while stock, are in the process of getting sorted. I've got a big long brake thread here: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9078617-Mk7-Golf-R-brake-cooling-for-tracked-car

I was up at The Ridge near Tacoma, WA last summer. The track features a long front straight where I was seeing 135 before heading into a complex of turns heading up the hill. The brakes were fine.

So did you end up getting rotors? Have you looked into DBA rotors?

A BBK won't solve your heat problems. More material would just mean it takes longer to build up the heat before you see issues. I think the biggest thing is getting something that can expel the heat. High carbon rotors like you mentioned tend to have more capability for storing heat. Aluminum hats (non floating) can also help pull heat from the outer side of the rotor. Full floating designs give a bit more room for the air to move. Racingbrake makes a nice two piece front. They might help expel more heat, but you do lose some mass. Also, any directional vane rotor will help reduce heat compared to the stock straight vane.

Another fan of the Ferodo DS2500. Zero fade even on advanced 7 session day at Summit Point in 90 degrees. Rotors measured near 900 degrees. Also, make sure you follow the pretty aggressive break in of the pads that Ferodo recommends.

I did experience pad material transfer about a month ago, also at Summit. Huge vibration, but zero issue with stopping AND it burned off after about 4 laps. Totally fine the rest of the day and ever since.

Upgrade to high temp fluid is a must of course or you will rum into boiling pretty quickly. I'm guessing you have already done this, but worth mentioning. I have had great results with Motul RBF600.

Good to know. I'm leaning more and more towards the Ferodo for accessibility and "streetability"

Endless MX72 is also an option to look into. Probably the best dual duty pads I’ve ever used. Zero fade on track. Whisper quiet on the street.

These seem to be hard to get...do you have an easy source stateside?

 

[Cliff]

So did you end up getting rotors? Have you looked into DBA rotors?

A BBK won't solve your heat problems. More material would just mean it takes longer to build up the heat before you see issues. I think the biggest thing is getting something that can expel the heat. High carbon rotors like you mentioned tend to have more capability for storing heat. Aluminum hats (non floating) can also help pull heat from the outer side of the rotor. Full floating designs give a bit more room for the air to move. Racingbrake makes a nice two piece front. They might help expel more heat, but you do lose some mass. Also, any directional vane rotor will help reduce heat compared to the stock straight vane.

BBK would bring larger rotors which mean more thermal mass to absorb heat. Of course, larger rotors means I have to ditch my 17" wheels, so moving to a BBK is my last resort.

The ti shims and higher temp brake fluid have solved my fluid fade problems for now. The OEM rotors from ATE are high carbon so I'll probably just switch back to them after I use up the Centric premium rotors on the car now. The Centric's are dimensionally identical to the OEM rotors to include the thickness of the friction material and the venting between the disks. If there haas to be a next step, it would probably be a move to Girodisc rotors where there is more venting.

 

[victorofhavoc]

BBK would bring larger rotors which mean more thermal mass to absorb heat. Of course, larger rotors means I have to ditch my 17" wheels, so moving to a BBK is my last resort.

The ti shims and higher temp brake fluid have solved my fluid fade problems for now. The OEM rotors from ATE are high carbon so I'll probably just switch back to them after I use up the Centric premium rotors on the car now. The Centric's are dimensionally identical to the OEM rotors to include the thickness of the friction material and the venting between the disks. If there haas to be a next step, it would probably be a move to Girodisc rotors where there is more venting.

Right, more mass means more heat absorption and more surface area to dissipate the heat, but if the metal of the BBK rotor isn't good at expelling heat then you just have longer to build heat, which may solve your problems, depending on how much time you spend per session. How hot are your wheels getting? I'm not expelling enough heat, and my wheels are way too hot to touch. Coming back after a cool down through a lap and paddock I was seeing front Rotors at 660F and wheels at about 350-400F on the inner edge. I'm running stock pads currently, and they fade off after two laps. They're not the worst stock pads I've used, but they're nowhere near good. Better pads will give me higher temps to an extent, so I'm sure I'll be sitting at similar temps/issues to you soon .

How much did the shims end up costing you and how hard would it be to get another set made?

I've never tried Girodisc, but I've heard decent things about them. I have used both DBA and racingbrake before. Racingbrake makes a really nice front set for our cars, and I'd personally go that route for the two-piece design and better vane setup. $730/set though isn't cheap, and if you want to save cash, the DBA rotors might be a better bet. DBA are harder to find, but they're out there. I can't find the documentation currently, but DBA claims with their kangaroo paw design vanes that you'll reduce heat by 20% on average compared to the OE rotor. 20% off 1000F is a crap ton of heat to expel.

 

[Cliff]

How much did the shims end up costing you and how hard would it be to get another set made?

I've never tried Girodisc, but I've heard decent things about them. I have used both DBA and racingbrake before. Racingbrake makes a really nice front set for our cars, and I'd personally go that route for the two-piece design and better vane setup. $730/set though isn't cheap, and if you want to save cash, the DBA rotors might be a better bet. DBA are harder to find, but they're out there. I can't find the documentation currently, but DBA claims with their kangaroo paw design vanes that you'll reduce heat by 20% on average compared to the OE rotor. 20% off 1000F is a crap ton of heat to expel.

The shims were $93 shipped using 0.8mm ti stock and it took a couple of months to get them. You would need to contact yperion titanium about having him make a set for you.

A friend of mine worked with Girodisc to develop rotors for his Mk 2 TTRS and he recommends them highly. He is a fellow ACNA instructor so I value his opinions.

 

[nkresho]

they have them on ebay

Just look for "mk7 titanium brake shims". $85+$15 shipping for me. They ship from Russia.

 

[victorofhavoc]

they have them on ebay

Just look for "mk7 titanium brake shims". $85+$15 shipping for me. They ship from Russia.

Very nice. Thank you.

 

[Crild]

I've done 31 days with Ferodo DS2500 front pads on my modified stage 1 Golf R, and for 11 of those days I had Ferodo pads both front and rear. I have never experienced pad fade with these. Pad material transfer has been an issue with other brands of pads (Porterfield R4-S and stock) but it has not been a problem with the Ferodos. I got 6 days out of my last set of front pads which included 1 day at Laguna Seca, a track that is very hard on brakes.

They work fine as dual duty pads and I don't need to swap in track pads before an HPDE event. I'm a happy customer. Fwiw, I am an instructor with the California Audi club chapters, and I run in advanced run groups with other organizations.

LOL are you joking? Ferodo makes the worst pads. The OEM pads are better than the ds2500s. material transfer with the 2500's is so bad you have to remove the rotors after every day to clean the material off otherwise the vibrations you get on day 2 is unreal. You couldnt pay me to run them. Worst decision i've made was to try them.