Stupid question. Take it easy on me :)

[Shane_Anigans]

Never stated other performance cars so WTF you on about???

I was only talking the case for the GTI vs the GTI PP, & the lighter car is better

Except it isn't, because the PP will produce better lap times on any circuit, because it has better brakes and differential.

 

[oddspyke]

I love Dave's argument that performance cars should come with economy brakes because they're lighter.

Thanks for the laugh

conjures up images of all those Honda kids with 18" wheels over the tiny factory brakes on their base model Civics.

 

[Hoon]

Never stated other performance cars so WTF you on about???

I was only talking the case for the GTI vs the GTI PP, & the lighter car is better

Obviously you know nothing about reducing unsprung weight....& when the power of the cars is only 10PS diff the 3kg lighter per front corner & 2kg lighter per rear corner is way better...

If you want performance many 312mm 4 pot systems will trounce the 340mm PP/R/CCS brakes....& be way lighter, better feel, etc...

Got to love the PP fan boys, "lets ignore mechanical & engineering basic facts & bury our heads in the sand & believe 100% in the marketing BS"...

Yes, 8.5 seconds / lap is "marketing BS".

Why do concepts that apply to all cars not apply to the GTI? Physics is physics.

You do realize the larger disc is for heat dissipation, and clamping force is not the limiting factor, right?

Otherwise you'd see race cars with 8" discs and 10 pot calipers.

 

[heiney9]

Never stated other performance cars so WTF you on about???

I was only talking the case for the GTI vs the GTI PP, & the lighter car is better

Obviously you know nothing about reducing unsprung weight....& when the power of the cars is only 10PS diff the 3kg lighter per front corner & 2kg lighter per rear corner is way better...

If you want performance many 312mm 4 pot systems will trounce the 340mm PP/R/CCS brakes....& be way lighter, better feel, etc...

Got to love the PP fan boys, "lets ignore mechanical & engineering basic facts & bury our heads in the sand & believe 100% in the marketing BS"...

Right......... (in my best Office Space voice) yet the heavier, pig of a P/P ran better at the 'ring vs. the slightly lighter std Gti. But please go on.......

The difference between the 2 cars is negligible enough to not matter (in a straight line). I don't think anyone is trying to defy basic mechanical and engineering principles (atleast I'm not). In this case the advantage is nil, but way to blow it way out of proportion and putting words in my mouth.

 

[golfdave]

Except it isn't, because the PP will produce better lap times on any circuit, because it has better brakes and differential.

a 3dr GTI manual will be faster than a 5dr GTI PP DSG, due to 81kg less weight on real roads the ring ain't a real road...& some of the turns are way too sharp for real roads...carousel, in real life?..yeah right...

& the FDL if it has a error 404 moment from the ABS etc will cut out...

& just for good measure the TCR car which uses the FDL have an adjustable preload setting with a correct value loading like an LSD...something which is supposed to be the downside of a LSD.....the road cars don't have this so your FDL will cook if you use it this way.

Like I say LSD is way more reliable in the long term & lighter & has less drivetrain losses/drag

 

[heiney9]

Here's a novel idea, did you ever think the advantage of the LSD and the larger brakes actually outweigh the slight weight differences between the car? Of course you didn't, you were too busy trying to spank our hands quoting engineering/mechanical principles that most of us are very well aware of.

DSG is heavier, but yet it has an advantage over the MT cars? Hmmm, but that goes against engineering principles, except the DSG has a mechanical advantage, enough to overcome the singular engineering principle that lighter = faster.

 

[Hoon]

Right......... (in my best Office Space voice) yet the heavier, pig of a P/P ran better at the 'ring vs. the slightly lighter std Gti. But please go on.......

The difference between the 2 cars is negligible enough to not matter. I don't think anyone is trying to defy basic mechanical and engineering principles (atleast I'm not). In this case the advantage is nil.

The advantage is about 4kph in corner exit speed.

Plus FWD cars with open diffs and any horsepower are just miserable to drive. Braking the spinning wheel is not nearly as good as a diff.

All the weight of the diff and most of the brake weight is on the front tires. Below 60mph on the street this is a good thing in a straight line, helps the car hook.

 

[heiney9]

FTR, I would have been just as pleased with a non-P/P car, except the P/P car was available and it was silly not to get it for cost difference. So I'm no P/P fan boy.

 

[Hoon]

FTR, I would have been just as pleased with a non-P/P car, except the P/P car was available and it was silly not to get it for cost difference. So I'm no P/P fan boy.

I will not buy a vehicle with an open diff, and I would be very hesitant to open a brand new dual clutch transaxle to install an aftermarket one.

So to me, no diff = no GTI.

 

[golfdave]

You do realize the larger disc is for heat dissipation, and clamping force is not the limiting factor, right?

Otherwise you'd see race cars with 8" discs and 10 pot calipers.

Actually you do see small discs with loads of pistons in race cars...

F1 rules rugs:-
Quote:-
Each wheel must have no more than one brake disc of 278mm maximum diameter and 32mm maximum thickness. Each disc must have only one aluminium caliper, with a maximum of six circular pistons, and no more than two brake pads.

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/Brake_system.html

You still don't get it.....better, even clamping force from 4 pistons produces less heat than a single big piston....the disc size (lever) gain from 312mm to 340mm is outweighed by the rubbish big single piston fitted to the R/PP/CSS

fit 4pots to the 340mm & yes reduce the weight & gain loads of better barking, but a 312mm on 4 pots is way better than a 340mm on single pot...

 

[heiney9]

Why are we quoting F1 rules, wtf.

A race car, one whose sole purpose is to race is a completely different animal than what we are discussing in this thread. Does the GTi come with a 4-pot brake option? No, so wtf?

 

[Hoon]

Actually you do see small discs with loads of pistons in race cars...

F1 rules rugs:-
Quote:-
Each wheel must have no more than one brake disc of 278mm maximum diameter and 32mm maximum thickness. Each disc must have only one aluminium caliper, with a maximum of six circular pistons, and no more than two brake pads.

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/Brake_system.html

You still don't get it.....better, even clamping force from 4 pistons produces less heat than a single big piston....the disc size (lever) gain from 312mm to 340mm is outweighed by the rubbish big single piston fitted to the R/PP/CSS

fit 4pots to the 340mm & yes reduce the weight & gain loads of better barking, but a 312mm on 4 pots is way better than a 340mm on single pot...

How many teams run a smaller disc than the rules allow?

I'll bet NONE.

 

[golfdave]

Why are we quoting F1 rules, wtf.

A race car, one whose sole purpose is to race is a completely different animal than what we are discussing in this thread. Does the GTi come with a 4-pot brake option? No, so wtf?

Obviously didn't read the post...

Originally Posted by Hoon
You do realize the larger disc is for heat dissipation, and clamping force is not the limiting factor, right?

Otherwise you'd see race cars with 8" discs and 10 pot calipers.

I was just correcting him...as you do see race cars with small discs & loads of pistons...278mm discs & 6 pistons...

 

[heiney9]

Obviously didn't read the post...

Originally Posted by Hoon
You do realize the larger disc is for heat dissipation, and clamping force is not the limiting factor, right?

Otherwise you'd see race cars with 8" discs and 10 pot calipers.

I was just correcting him...as you do see race cars with small discs & loads of pistons...278mm discs & 6 pistons...

I did read the post, the questions still stand. Guess you always have to have the last word.

 

[golfdave]

How many teams run a smaller disc than the rules allow?

I'll bet NONE.

errr...

but that's still a 278mm disc with 6 pistons.....on a race car

You were suggesting that that loads of pistons on a small disc is not used because you thought that disc size is more important than even piston clamping area...this proves otherwise...