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What did you do to your mk7 today?

imthanick_a

Autocross Champion
Location
Ohio
Yup!, unless they are too fucked. Then you need a time-cert or replacement of the hub. This usually happens with impact guns and not normal tools for most people. Techs will try to rush, so instead of starting the bolt by hand (I try to do this as much as possible, but even I get lazy... imagine that the forum douchebag know it all euro specialist mechanic gets lazy or impatient and fucks things up, who would have guessed I'm not perfect.... oh.... probably you guys...) they just run it in with the impact gun and it gets cross threaded, instead of realizing their mistake ( you can clearly hear the different tone as the impact gun tried to force the bolt in), they just run it in and call it good. That may work the first time, but the next tech who tried to install a bolt in the hub, even if he does some of it by hand, will end up destroying all the threads if they use an impact gun.

Recently as in yesterday, I was installing a new hydroboost brake booster for my boss's / father's 06 Chevy Silvarado 2500HD 4WD. After removing everything and hand tightening the bolts for where the booster installs in the cabin, I ended up cross threading the nut for the hardest to reach stud by hand.... BY HAND (not the first time) so while it started to install fine with a ratchet, it soon got hard. I knew this was a sign I had fucked it up, so I removed it and ran a thread chaser through the nut, and on the bolt. Then reinstalled the nut and was suuuuuuuuuper careful about it. After it got past the bad point I took my air ratchet and ran that sucker home before torquing it... by feel... cause it's not that critical. I should note that replacing the leaking and worn hyrdoboost unit restored the firm brake pedal feel that my dad had been chasing. I had recently replaced the front and rear brake pads and rotors in his hope that would cure the issue. The first time he used the brakes after I replaced the unit, he was super happy that everything was back to normal.
I started my bolts by setting the impact to the lowest setting (which I measured out to be about 30 ft-lb) and very very slowly squeezed the trigger. I was able to feel if the bolt was starting and only if I knew for certain it was starting would I squeeze in all the way. After I did the star pattern on the lowest setting, I bumped it up and went around again, following with a torque wrench. Like you said, rushing will cause issues.

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-Dutch-

Drag Race Newbie
Location
RI
I work in an industry that among other things involves assembling product for the purpose of end-user rental. One of my biggest pet peeves is guys not knowing how to use power tools and trying to drive fasteners without hand starting them.

Anyways, what is time-cert?
 

Shane_Anigans

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SE MI
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
Because studs are more prone to break/strip. Much easier to replace a bolt than a stud.

I worked in the automotive service industry for several years, and I can count the number of broken/stripped studs I've seen on a high school shop teacher's hand. I don't disagree that with your reasoning, but in practice, it's actually pretty rare, and usually only seen on really old and poorly maintained vehicles.
 

Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
I work in an industry that among other things involves assembling product for the purpose of end-user rental. One of my biggest pet peeves is guys not knowing how to use power tools and trying to drive fasteners without hand starting them.

Anyways, what is time-cert?

AH! good question, time-cert is a type of thread repair. Where you drill out the existing threading, bore it out to a larger size with a left hand thread... thread, then with a special tool install the time-cert into that left handed thread. Then you can install the normal size fastener with no problem. This only works if you are able to take away enough material to install the time-cert.

I started my bolts by setting the impact to the lowest setting (which I measured out to be about 30 ft-lb) and very very slowly squeezed the trigger. I was able to feel if the bolt was starting and only if I knew for certain it was starting would I squeeze in all the way. After I did the star pattern on the lowest setting, I bumped it up and went around again, following with a torque wrench. Like you said, rushing will cause issues.

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As far as tightening lug nuts and bolts go, I use a torque stick on my impact guns and until earlier this week have never torqued a wheel with a torque wrench. There was a thread about vibration with aftermarket rims using hubcentric spacers. The question of lug torque came up and I said that I used an 80 FT-LBS torque stick with my impact gun. People were quick to point out that spec is 88FT-LBS (clearly having no understanding of how impact guns and torque sticks work), so I decided to get my torque wrench and set it to 90FT-LBS after installing a wheel with my impact gun set up. The wrench broke without tightening the bolt any. Obviously the most important issue is simply starting the hardware by hand to ensure it isn't cross threaded.
 
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Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
They are much harder to install as they have a shoulder on them, and the special bit has a cut out to make a groove for that shoulder but you need to have everything perfectly aligned and flush to make it work.

This is mainly an issue with stripped out drain plugs. Honda / Acura's that are mainly "serviced" at quick lubes are really prone to having the oil pan threading stripped out. I have installed a few time-certs to repair this, but they never work that well. Oil likes to seap from the time-cert to oil pan connection. In the short term I fix this leak as well as striped out oil pans that I don't try to fix by actually using an o-ring between the drain plug washer and the oil pan. Works fine but needs to be replaced every service. For this reason we have started to replace the oil pan itself.

Edit: I'm the VW / Audi specialist at my shop, but I'm also the Domestic and Import specialist (through growing up in an autoshop I'm pretty used to and good and working on everything). In the past few weeks I've done like 8 timing belts on Asian V6 engines from the 90's to the 2010 hybrids. I hate working on anything other then VW / Audi, but I'm also good at working on everything, and the other tech's are MBZ / BMW specialists, so in order for them to produce as much as possible ( I may be the longest term tech in the shop, but I am also short 20+ years experience compared to the other guys), I end up with all the "shit" jobs, at least from my perspective as a VW / Audi specialist. Also with my dad as the boss he ends up taking his frustrations out on me instead of the other guys. So instead of being like "hey old timers why did you mess of this super simple repair" he yells at me for messing up super crazy random jobs that he has no experience with and I'm just flying by the seat of my pants and mainly enthusiast forum instructions because AllData can be fucking useless.
 
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Shane_Anigans

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SE MI
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
In the past few weeks I've done like 8 timing belts on Asian V6 engines from the 90's to the 2010 hybrids.

Timing belt replacements are bread and butter at the dealership. It's one of those repairs that no one turns down, since everyone knows someone who neglected it and ended up spending $4000 on a new engine. Book time on the Accord V6 was something like 5 hours, but I knew master techs who could knock them out in 45 minutes flat. The first time I witnessed it, it cost me a 12-pack of beer on a bet. :D
 

Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
Timing belt replacements are bread and butter at the dealership. It's one of those repairs that no one turns down, since everyone knows someone who neglected it and ended up spending $4000 on a new engine. Book time on the Accord V6 was something like 5 hours, but I knew master techs who could knock them out in 45 minutes flat. The first time I witnessed it, it cost me a 12-pack of beer on a bet. :D

TLDR: When all you do is one job on one version of a car you should be good at it (totally over-simplifying what a dealership tech does, but by and large a dealership tech only works on one brand of car. That must be nice, I have to work on pretty much every brand but some of the high end Euros, and am expected to be able to do a job in the same time a tech who only does that job can do).

That's pretty impressive, I guess I should say that when we do a timing belt job at our shop we also do a water pump replacement. It isn't too bad to do, but requires removal of the cam gear toward the radiator to be removed so that the rear metal timing cover can be removed and the water pump extracted and replaced. The last T-Belt I did the rear cam seal was leaking so I had my dad help me remove that cam gear. When it broke loose due to our positioning he actually broke my nose (not the first time I've broken it) by slamming his elbow into it. We bill out 5 hours as that is book time to replace the water pump, even on a hybrid engine which is way more involved.

Sounds like that dealership is scamming customers as time for the a simple T-Belt replacement, including replacing the tensioner and idler's is 3.4 hours. I've watched super experienced "master techs" (do you mean ASE or dealer certified?) do these jobs and I seriously doubt any tech could replace the timing belt and all associated bits and have the car up and running and out the door in 45 minutes. Timer starts as soon as the tech picks up the RO, because that is how we are "paid" be it flat rate or bonus.

Maybe this just shows my inexperience with Asian vehicles. I mean I'm replacing the vacuum pump on an 08 Beetle which bills out at 8+ hours because according to the book you need to R&R the transmission, but with my knowledge and experience I know that is bullshit. So the first shop the customer took their car too said they didn't want to do it because of that so the customer took it to our shop instead. I happen to have a lot of experience doing this repair, and as there are no labor times for the job if you don't remove the trans, I estimated 2 hours. The shop then charged 3 hours for it, my boss tacking on that extra hour to pay for my experience in the matter. I pulled the car in at 4.40 today. By 4.55 I was almost half way done with the job.

That being said a vacuum pump is much easier then a timing belt and water pump. Honda / Acura timing belts are usually simply a time consuming one man job, but Toyota / Lexus timing belts almost certainly require two people (I've done a few solo), because the front cam doesn't want to stay times, and will roll forwards or backwards required it to be manually held in place while putting on the timing belt. Then after replacing the water pump, tensioner, idlers and installing the belt and cover, then you need to bleed the cooling system, take it on a test drive, get it fully hot to burp the system, wait for it to cool off and then top off the coolant level. At least that is how you need to do things to get it right, which most dealership tech's aren't too concerned about in my experience. The turn over is so high in my area most of them are just looking to make a quick buck before they are fired.
 

Shane_Anigans

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SE MI
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
TLDR: When all you do is one job on one version of a car you should be good at it (totally over-simplifying what a dealership tech does, but by and large a dealership tech only works on one brand of car. That must be nice, I have to work on pretty much every brand but some of the high end Euros, and am expected to be able to do a job in the same time a tech who only does that job can do).

Yeah, that's pretty much it! I'm talking about a Honda Master tech with 20+ years of experience, who was like a machine when it came to maintenance jobs. Timing belt, water pump, accessory belts, coolant bleed, the whole 9 yards, just like it says in the Honda shop manual. I stood there and watched him do it all, since there's no way I was going to buy him a case of beer without verifying it was all done. :D

I watched another master tech do a clutch job on my old CRX; it took him roughly 35 minutes to take the transmission out of the vehicle. As you say, if you've got only one type of car to learn, it's a lot easier, especially if its Honda.
 

Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
Yeah, that's pretty much it! I'm talking about a Honda Master tech with 20+ years of experience, who was like a machine when it came to maintenance jobs. Timing belt, water pump, accessory belts, coolant bleed, the whole 9 yards, just like it says in the Honda shop manual. I stood there and watched him do it all, since there's no way I was going to buy him a case of beer without verifying it was all done. :D

I watched another master tech do a clutch job on my old CRX; it took him roughly 35 minutes to take the transmission out of the vehicle. As you say, if you've got only one type of car to learn, it's a lot easier, especially if its Honda.

Truth, in my (only 5 years working for pay, but 18 years working in a shop) I've never got to learn from an Import tech, and never taken a class in it. Which makes sense since my shop is a Euro Specialist, but we still work on a lot of import and domestic.

I should also say, that exact point is why I'm not quite sure why doctors make more then auto tech's. Yes they have to do more schooling, but their focus is so simplified and easy compared to working on cars. I mean if a doctor messes up, no big deal (overall, even if the patient dies), but if an auto tech messes something up, or even if something goes wrong with the car completely unrelated, all hell comes down on us.
Example, I have an issue with my foot, I figured I broke it due to some trauma I suffered, my GP agreed and I went to a specialist with X-rays, he said there was nothing wrong and I shouldn't be in pain (even though some days I can barely walk due to foot pain). After months of dealing with it I decided to go to a... skin doctor, figuring maybe it's a bunion or something. The skin doctor instantly identified the problem and got me on a path to fix it. So my question, the first specialist I went to makes 100k+, why couldn't he identify a simple skin issue? I mean that's grounds for termination depending on the severity in an auto shop. This is probably a small indie shop issue then an dealership issue, a dealership being more similar to a hospital.
 
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Shane_Anigans

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SE MI
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
Truth, in my (only 5 years working for pay, but 18 years working in a shop) I've never got to learn from an Import tech, and never taken a class in it. Which makes sense since my shop is a Euro Specialist, but we still work on a lot of import and domestic.

If it pays money, its worth working on.

Also, I think we've derailed yet another thread. :D :D :D :D :D
 

Mr.Tebo

Ready to race!
AH! good question, time-cert is a type of thread repair. Where you drill out the existing threading, bore it out to a larger size with a left hand thread... thread, then with a special tool install the time-cert into that left handed thread. Then you can install the normal size fastener with no problem. This only works if you are able to take away enough material to install the time-cert.



As far as tightening lug nuts and bolts go, I use a torque stick on my impact guns and until earlier this week have never torqued a wheel with a torque wrench. There was a thread about vibration with aftermarket rims using hubcentric spacers. The question of lug torque came up and I said that I used an 80 FT-LBS torque stick with my impact gun. People were quick to point out that spec is 88FT-LBS (clearly having no understanding of how impact guns and torque sticks work), so I decided to get my torque wrench and set it to 90FT-LBS after installing a wheel with my impact gun set up. The wrench broke without tightening the bolt any. Obviously the most important issue is simply starting the hardware by hand to ensure it isn't cross threaded.

Nah i know how they work(torque sticks/impact gun) just never heard of or used a torque stick. My employer likes us to use torque wrenches on the jets. We even sometimes get digital ones. I guess I'm just use to what im use to. Can you calibrate a torque stick?



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