Why Crappy Wheels Are a Bad Idea - /ENGINEERED

[2015WhiteGTI]

I know this is older and I may have posted it before, but always good information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU3AI7K8IN0

 

[Baldilocks73]

http://www.automoblog.net/2016/04/05/are-replica-wheels-safe/

 

[flipflp]

Why Crappy click bait titles don't help people to understand wheel strength, manufacturing, testing, etc. Basically this is an ad for HRE. Good information, sure. Compare it to the link below yours and the truth is somewhere in the middle about cast wheels.

There are hundreds of factors in what makes a wheel. Manufacturing type, metal used, heat treating, stress testing, machining/finishing. No one is going to argue that HRE wheels aren't top quality, and they shouldn't. For the price you pay, they had better be great.

It's just mind boggling how many people shit on a broad range of "cast wheels" without much more than anecdotal evidence and bias.

For those without the forged wheel budget, hopefully you consider a few things when purchasing cast wheels:

How long has the company been in business?
What is their warranty policy?
Do they state JWL Testing/TUV approval, as well as load ratings?

If answering any of those questions you don't feel happy about the answer, keep searching. If all of those questions have been answered to your satisfaction, and the wheel is the style you want, fits your needs/requirements and your budget, party on!

 

[paulkromz]

oh don't stop there.... why not discuss replica parts in general?
how about how uncle bob has his own "brand" of coil overs?
I mean "insert cool brand name" coil over

SMMFH

 

[flipflp]

oh don't stop there.... why not discuss replica parts in general?
how about how uncle bob has his own "brand" of coil overs?
I mean "insert cool brand name" coil over

SMMFH

Not sure what you're getting at, there are right ways and wrong ways to make everything, including parts that are copied off a pre-exisiting design.

Don't get me started on generic coilovers, that's very different than round wheels built to meet/exceed universally accepted performance/stress tests.

 

[AR11]

If high end forged wheels are worth the premium price then the manufacturers should measure the rotational inertia of the wheel (as the HRE guy emphasizes) and impact test the wheels to standards way beyond JWL standards.

The only company I know of that is really doing this is CCW with their corsair wheels that are impact tested to 3000lbs while JWL is something like 1300lbs.

More info on JWL: http://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/461588-jwl-wheel-stanards.html

 

[2015WhiteGTI]

Why Crappy click bait titles don't help people to understand wheel strength, manufacturing, testing, etc. Basically this is an ad for HRE. Good information, sure. Compare it to the link below yours and the truth is somewhere in the middle about cast wheels.

There are hundreds of factors in what makes a wheel. Manufacturing type, metal used, heat treating, stress testing, machining/finishing. No one is going to argue that HRE wheels aren't top quality, and they shouldn't. For the price you pay, they had better be great.

It's just mind boggling how many people shit on a broad range of "cast wheels" without much more than anecdotal evidence and bias.

For those without the forged wheel budget, hopefully you consider a few things when purchasing cast wheels:

How long has the company been in business?
What is their warranty policy?
Do they state JWL Testing/TUV approval, as well as load ratings?

If answering any of those questions you don't feel happy about the answer, keep searching. If all of those questions have been answered to your satisfaction, and the wheel is the style you want, fits your needs/requirements and your budget, party on!

I'm not actually sure why you're so upset about the first video. It is merely stating facts about the different types of wheels and what differentiates them. It wasn't an ad for HRE at all. Alan was nice enough to talk about the engineering differences of these wheels (/Drive has several videos that will have one manufacturer talk about the industry in general - i.e. Stoptech for brakes). Most high-end wheel manufacturers offer these types of options on their wheels and are applicable. He mentioned that the German and Japanese manufacturers do quite well with making a good quality wheel.

TBH: Many of the REALLY nice wheels that HRE makes are way out of my price range (the wheels that I like anyway). They are literally $10 - $13,000 for a set of four and then you need to put tires on them!

I completely agree with you. There are a ton of things to consider when purchasing a wheel. But I don't see anywhere in this video where he's bashing cast wheels (HRE FF wheels are technically cast) or stating that you should only buy aftermarket wheels from a premium manufacturer. He just said to make sure you do your research and stick with well known companies.

Was the title a bit off? Yes, but I literally just copied the title from the /Drive YouTube channel.

 

[wlfpck]

Honestly... the take away should be that people need to do research before buying a critical part like a wheel.

At the VERY minimum, it should meet the JWL, VIA, TUV standard.

This was a popular thing in the scion crowd and others where people would run the Drag and XXR wheels that meet NONE of those standards. They buy it because it's $89 a wheel and look like the higher end wheels. They all want them so they can be all "hellaflush, static, poke, stance will make her dance, low-life, Illest, Fatlace, I can't clear a speed bump so I blocked traffic in a Target parking lot, I'm going to return my car to stock to resale, but no one wants it because the bottom of the car is rotted out due to scraping on everything, etc. etc." scene points. (note that I have no issue with people running air and can actually raise their car up. Nor do I have an issue with people that lower their car in general. We all know who my statement applies to. You know, the cut springs, etc.) That's why there is a market for the center caps to make the Drag and XXR wheels look like HRE, Vossen, Work, Wedsport, etc.

Now there are people that harp and trash on knock-off wheels but they do it for the "wrong" reason.

That's why people need to do their research and really look into what they are buying. The problem with anecdotes is that sometimes they're not true, they're exaggerated, they're repeated, etc. They can blow a one-off situation into a HUGE deal.

 

[flipflp]

I'm not actually sure why you're so upset about the first video. It is merely stating facts about the different types of wheels and what differentiates them. It wasn't an ad for HRE at all. Alan was nice enough to talk about the engineering differences of these wheels (/Drive has several videos that will have one manufacturer talk about the industry in general - i.e. Stoptech for brakes). Most high-end wheel manufacturers offer these types of options on their wheels and are applicable. He mentioned that the German and Japanese manufacturers do quite well with making a good quality wheel.

TBH: Many of the REALLY nice wheels that HRE makes are way out of my price range (the wheels that I like anyway). They are literally $10 - $13,000 for a set of four and then you need to put tires on them!

I completely agree with you. There are a ton of things to consider when purchasing a wheel. But I don't see anywhere in this video where he's bashing cast wheels (HRE FF wheels are technically cast) or stating that you should only buy aftermarket wheels from a premium manufacturer. He just said to make sure you do your research and stick with well known companies.

Was the title a bit off? Yes, but I literally just copied the title from the /Drive YouTube channel.

I've gotta apologize, I definitely wasn't getting at you for the post, the title, or any of that. Drive was the one that decided the title, and you were just sharing info with the forum. I was just triggered, because it speaks to the $5000+ forged or nothing crowd but gives no credit to cast wheels are generally great wheels for the masses at 1/4 of the price. I feel like that can lump all "cast" wheels, Flow Formed or otherwise, into a category that the uneducated might consider crappy or however you want to classify them.

I love nothing more than "how it's made" style videos, but the title made it a bit more than that without giving much time to the good German and Japanese wheel manufacturers (plus a few other Asian countries INCLUDING China). Again, triggered but nothing against HRE for the video.

Anyway, carry on haha.

 

[2015WhiteGTI]

I've gotta apologize, I definitely wasn't getting at you for the post, the title, or any of that. Drive was the one that decided the title, and you were just sharing info with the forum. I was just triggered, because it speaks to the $5000+ forged or nothing crowd but gives no credit to cast wheels are generally great wheels for the masses at 1/4 of the price. I feel like that can lump all "cast" wheels, Flow Formed or otherwise, into a category that the uneducated might consider crappy or however you want to classify them.

I love nothing more than "how it's made" style videos, but the title made it a bit more than that without giving much time to the good German and Japanese wheel manufacturers (plus a few other Asian countries INCLUDING China). Again, triggered but nothing against HRE for the video.

Anyway, carry on haha.

No worries and thanks for the reply.

I am fanatical about light weight wheels and typically, they're expensive, but Neuspeed, Advanti, Enkei and several others have come out with stellar designs with a great reputation and quality for not a ton of money. I find it comforting that as an enthusiast, we have these options.

 

[flipflp]

No worries and thanks for the reply.

I am fanatical about light weight wheels and typically, they're expensive, but Neuspeed, Advanti, Enkei and several others have come out with stellar designs with a great reputation and quality for not a ton of money. I find it comforting that as an enthusiast, we have these options.

We're on the same page

 

[rabidbunny]

My $0.02 is who has tracked them? If there are a number of broken wheel threads across different marques with the same wheel, you have your answer.

 

[flipflp]

My $0.02 is who has tracked them? If there are a number of broken wheel threads across different marques with the same wheel, you have your answer.

That's not a bad guide, but what if you have no intentions of tracking your car? What if you are just looking for a wheel that won't deform from regular use, meets all safety and certification criteria, but has never been used or tested on a track to show its durability?

Track use is above and beyond the normal for the majority of aftermarket manufacturers, unless they do something like market the wheel FOR TRACK USE. Then you've put yourself in a position to have either made a wheel that will handle those extreme forces, or you've better have great customer service and insurance.

My $0.02 on someone who tracks a set of $400 wheels from eBay and then bitches that they failed is that they bought the wrong tool for the job, and that's on them. That's like using a thin wall harbor freight impact socket and then complaining that it exploded torquing something to 300 ft/lbs. Wrong tool, expected outcome.

 

[TheGreekFreak]

I was just triggered, because it speaks to the $5000+ forged or nothing crowd but gives no credit to cast wheels are generally great wheels for the masses at 1/4 of the price.

I hate wheel snobs. Most of us, even those who occasionally autox or track our DDs, do not need a set of $4-5K forged wheels. I feel like people who try to make that case usually do it to either validate their purchase or show off. I could care less if your $5K investment helped shave a second off your lap time, I still think its a waste.

I had "cheap" off roading wheels on my jeep. All the wrangler bros who just city crawl anywat were getting on me for not getting better ones. Outcome? They were fine. No air loss issues, no bent wheels, no balancing problems, no wobble, etc. They looked great, lasted, and cost me a fraction of what the cool guys paid.

I feel like as long as its from a reputable aftermarket company and the weight is right, they should be fine. If I was nervous, I would much rather leave the stock wheels than drop that kind of money on an exotic aftermarket wheel. Very low value, low return investment imo

 

[2015WhiteGTI]

I hate wheel snobs. Most of us, even those who occasionally autox or track our DDs, do not need a set of $4-5K forged wheels. I feel like people who try to make that case usually do it to either validate their purchase or show off. I could care less if your $5K investment helped shave a second off your lap time, I still think its a waste.

I had "cheap" off roading wheels on my jeep. All the wrangler bros who just city crawl anywat were getting on me for not getting better ones. Outcome? They were fine. No air loss issues, no bent wheels, no balancing problems, no wobble, etc. They looked great, lasted, and cost me a fraction of what the cool guys paid.

I feel like as long as its from a reputable aftermarket company and the weight is right, they should be fine. If I was nervous, I would much rather leave the stock wheels than drop that kind of money on an exotic aftermarket wheel. Very low value, low return investment imo

Yes, you're right, no one really "needs" $4-5K rims. Many of the high end wheels from HRE, BBS etc. top $10 - 12K even!

I've been track driving for over 10 years and actually have my race license (SCCA, AER and BMWCCA). For me, it's all about performance (see my sig).
Do I have a set of forged wheels on my GTI? Yes, I do, but I bought them used and had them refinished to my liking. TBH, I can actually feel the difference between my cast wheels vs. the forged. There's less deflection under load and I can feel what the tire is doing better. Can others feel this? I'm not sure. I do like certain styles, but won't pay for them (some of the Rotiforms or Fifteen52 styles are stellar). BBS LM are my favorite wheel, but they don't make them for our car and they're too heavy for my liking. Custom BBS E88's would work, but cost a fortune.

To that end, all the cars that I drive on the track have flow-formed cast wheels. Why? Cost. If you wreck a forged wheel, paying for a replacement is just super expensive and just not worth it for us and we've never had an issue with the rims (OZ or Apex). Racing is expensive enough and we aren't pros so we don't have the budget (brake pads cost $350, tires last around 9 hours and cost $1200 per set, 24 gallons of fuel lasts 1-1/2 hours, fees to race on one weekend can be $1800 just to enter the race, plus there's the transportation costs just to get the car to the track along with hotel and food).

Also, I had Advan RS wheels on my BMW for over 8 years. I used them for both the street and track. They are a flow formed cast wheel that withstood everything I could throw at them without any issues at all. The quality of these wheels is fantastic, but they come at a cost as they're around $700 per wheel. I don't usually change wheels very often once I get what I want so for me it'd be worth spending a little more to get the quality I'm looking for along with the aesthetics. Never do I look at a wheel and think about showing off. My car is function over form. That's why there isn't much in the way of styling upgrades to my car save a front lip and the exhaust diffuser (which came with the exhaust). The front lip is really just to balance out the look of the car as I just feel it needs to not look odd to myself.

In the end, to each his own.