Walked out on dealer - did not purchase the R :-(

[vj123]

Very true! That's why I said I am thinking about it



Many guys here said there is nothing wrong with 37 miles so you almost brainwashed me. Maybe I will stick to my guns. I don't know what's going to happen. I can't read the future but I want to be in an R soon too I have been waiting since last Sept-Oct.

Yeah i can understand.

It might be better for you contact dealerships and find a vehicle before it even lands in their lot. Worst case you can place a factory order. That way you can avoid the cars which sat in the port for more than 6 months.

 

[adam1991]

There *is* nothing wrong with 37 miles. But (a) you already have a bad history with this place, and (b) they lied to you.

Those last two things along disqualify this place.

But you focused so hard on the damn miles, which are inconsequential.

Had this been a reputable dealership and the guy told you the truth when you asked about the miles, reconsidering your "hard and fast rule" would make complete sense to those of us giving you shit about the miles. But these are scumbags. Don't give them your business. If you do, you're just reinforcing to them that their scumbag ways work.

And that just ruins it for everyone else.

Join Costco and use their auto service for a no-hassle buying experience.

 

[only1harry]

C'mon Harry you can't be serious.

How many cars on the road right now were broken in this way? Less than .00001 percent maybe?? How many of the rest of them are having any kind of problems whatsoever because of this lack of "proper" break-in? How about.. none??

Sorry that was grossly miscommunicated. I meant to say that's my way of breaking in my cars properly. I am set in my ways, what can I say. I plan to take the R to the track (after stage 1, maybe 2, and some suspension mods) so I want to prepare the engine my way.

Most cars out there have issues unbeknownst to their owners. They put the cruise on for extended periods and drive them like grandma around town. They also leave the oil in for 10k miles because the manual or the dealer tells them to. I always do the first oil change at 600-800 mi. before I start redlining and driving my cars "normal". That too is part of the break-in process. People leave the oil in their cars the first 6k-10k miles with all the metal grindings in it from the engine breaking in. That is also one of the worse things you can do to the motor. Many of those cars out there have lost 10, 15% or more of the original power, and their owners have no clue because it is slowly gradual over time.

Harry

 

[only1harry]

Had this been a reputable dealership and the guy told you the truth when you asked about the miles, reconsidering your "hard and fast rule" would make complete sense to those of us giving you shit about the miles. But these are scumbags. Don't give them your business. If you do, you're just reinforcing to them that their scumbag ways work.

And that just ruins it for everyone else.

Join Costco and use their auto service for a no-hassle buying experience.

Excellent advice Adam, and how I feel. I am far from actually doing what I said "I was thinking" of doing. I truly do not want to give those scumbags my business or my heard earned money.

Harry

 

[only1harry]

Actually, to _properly_ break in a car, you need to drive it:


Anything else will result in a cursed car guaranteed to spontaneously combust.

Nah, only if I don't break it in during a solar eclipse. Lunar eclipses are OK too but the car will not go over 125k mi. without major repairs. Solar eclipse break-in's extend the life of your engine and all bolt-on's substantially, and guarantee to avoid spontaneous combustion. It's the best anti-curse remedy. We must be reading different hex & spell books

Harry

 

[adam1991]

Most cars out there have issues unbeknownst to their owners.

no, most cars have what YOU think are "issues".

I would happily challenge your preconceived notions on all of those things, but I'm tired and it's Sunday.

 

[kevinkar]

Most cars out there have issues unbeknownst to their owners.

I'd venture to say ALL cars have issues unbeknownst to their owners.

People leave the oil in their cars the first 6k-10k miles with all the metal grindings in it from the engine breaking in. That is also one of the worse things you can do to the motor.

In every one of my previous new cars I have changed the oil at 1000 miles and have never seen metal in the drained oil. At each 5000 mile change (Mobil 1 in every car) I never found shavings. Then, later on as I moved up to 7000 mile changes, same results and the oil was still clear. So in MY experience over the last 30 years, this is not actually happening and that's in engines from Ford, Chevrolet, Volvo and Honda.

And I've NEVER taken any time whatsoever to "break in" any engine much less think about it. I have followed the manufacturer's guidelines in the owner's manual to keep it below redline or vary the RPMs as much as possible over the first X miles, otherwise I have never done anything else in any new car I've ever had. And all of them lasted the entire time I've owned them until sold.

Many of those cars out there have lost 10, 15% or more of the original power, and their owners have no clue because it is slowly gradual over time.

ALL cars lose power over time and that is not due to improper break in but rather to normal wear and tear. Pistons do wear against cylinders, rings do wear out, compression lowers, etc. That's how all mechanical devices work.

An owner would have to show me detailed records showing dyno results on day 1 and at set times over the life of the car after "proper break-in" to convince me that does anything to prevent a 10-15 percent loss in power over the life of the engine over and above normal use.

And I will note there are plenty of people I know who have all bought several new cars over the years and none of them (several are true gearheads) have seriously broken in any new engine and I am at a loss to point out any one of them that blew an engine or had major issues because of that.

I think you should be careful the first 500-1000 miles but my humble opinion is there is no such thing as "proper" break in.

 

[BlueHen]

My 2015 stop-sale TDI was two years old and had 750 miles on it when I purchased it new last May. The 750 miles were because the dealer actually did their job and drove the car once a month during the stop-sale to keep it from rotting.

28,000 miles later, it runs like a top.

Drive more, worry less.

 

[only1harry]

no, most cars have what YOU think are "issues".

I would happily challenge your preconceived notions on all of those things, but I'm tired and it's Sunday.

Adam, I am not going to argue with you either. That is not why I joined this forum.

I grew up in my uncle's shop and helped him rebuild engines, and later worked in his shop to put myself through school. I have seen the inside of many engines that were driven properly and moderately hard, and others that were driven by "older people" that never exceeded 65mph or rarely were in the upper half of the RPM range. I have road raced cars and autocrossed since the 90's and instructed for 8 of those years. I have held SCCA competition licenses, instructed for the SCCA, and other race schools and Motorsports clubs including PCA and BMWCCA. I am also an SCCA Chief Safety Steward. I have hung out with hundreds of mature racers and national level drivers (I didn't start racing legally until I was 31) and also class A mechanics who are racers themselves and rebuild their engines every couple of years and also did their wives' cars that were driven 'nicely' consistently, and talked about the differences in the engines and the power loss I mentioned earlier. There is also much written on the subject.

But I also speak from my own experience, and I don't just drive my cars to work and get groceries like most people on these forums do and like to hypothesize a lot. Almost every car I have owned the last 20 years has spent a good amount of time on the track and gets on the dyno whenever a bolt on is added, or at least every 2 years regardless to ensure there is no power loss. At the same time the valve cover is off for visual inspection and to adjust clearances before it gets on the dyno. The owners of the 2 race shops I frequent (1 for Hondas and 1 for Porsche & BMW - that's all they work on) since my back problem forced me to no longer work on my own cars, are also road racers themselves and true experts in all automotive areas, which is hard to find these days. In my 50 years I have gained some knowledge as well to put it mildly (and a wall full of trophies).

You think I am wrong on everything. That's your prerogative. To each his own. If we lived close to each other I would meet you to discuss our experiences over a beer or 2, but arguing to that extend on all those subjects is not what I am here for.

Harry

 

[adam1991]

What you learned as a pup at your uncle's knees is not applicable to today's engineering.

Otherwise we'd still be doing what we did in the '50s with new Chevys.

And without scientific proof that's been carefully collected and independently validated, your voodoo is no better than anyone else's voodoo--and certainly not the specifications that the car's own design engineers tell us.

 

[cb1111]

Sorry that was grossly miscommunicated. I meant to say that's my way of breaking in my cars properly. I am set in my ways, what can I say. I plan to take the R to the track (after stage 1, maybe 2, and some suspension mods) so I want to prepare the engine my way.

Most cars out there have issues unbeknownst to their owners. They put the cruise on for extended periods and drive them like grandma around town. They also leave the oil in for 10k miles because the manual or the dealer tells them to. I always do the first oil change at 600-800 mi. before I start redlining and driving my cars "normal". That too is part of the break-in process. People leave the oil in their cars the first 6k-10k miles with all the metal grindings in it from the engine breaking in. That is also one of the worse things you can do to the motor. Many of those cars out there have lost 10, 15% or more of the original power, and their owners have no clue because it is slowly gradual over time.

Harry

This is a load of horsemanure - but - it is your opinion (even if it is completely wrong) so if that is how you want to waste your money then feel free to do "your" break-in period.

 

[only1harry]

And without scientific proof that's been carefully collected and independently validated, your voodoo is no better than anyone else's voodoo--and certainly not the specifications that the car's own design engineers tell us.

And that's exactly where I got my break-in method - from a Honda engineer and other Honda racers and engine builders, and have validated with other BMW and Porsche racers and mechanics who all use similar methods. Engine internals and fundamentals have not changed in a very long time. Only tolerances and electronics have.

I never said your methods of breaking in your R's (or not following any process) are wrong. This is a debate that been argued for decades. We will never solve it or have everyone agree. Sorry for bringing it up.

Harry

 

[adam1991]

And that's exactly where I got my break-in method - from a Honda engineer and other Honda racers and engine builders, and have validated with other BMW and Porsche racers and mechanics who all use similar methods. Engine internals and fundamentals have not changed in a very long time. Only tolerances and electronics have.

Really.

Really.

Manufacturing methods have remained the same since the 50s, eh? Materials science has remained unchanged, eh? So all the voodoo you learned at your uncle's knee still holds?

And of course, "ONLY" the electronics. "ONLY". Got it.

And tell me what race engines have to do with consumer engines.

Your voodoo comes from God knows where. You may spout it, but don't think just because you say it that the world must not only acknowledge it but both honor AND embrace it. To the contrary.

 

[Junebugz_GTI10]

Harry save yourself and just let the thread die... Post your new R in another thread when you get one that fits your specifications.

 

[cb1111]

Harry save yourself and just let the thread die... Post your new R in another thread when you get one that fits your specifications.

I think he really would be best off in the Honda Forums.