Type R Concept (Part Deux)

[Sonnytron]

It's got more than 276. I'd venture to guess around 310.

And everything else is purely subjective. Quite frankly i would drive one sans the decals even those won't make it to production.



Hey man.



Exactly. Don't forget GMs HiperStrut as well. All 3 very similar.



I'd venture to guess Anerica will see this engine I'm something.

I'm thinking a severely neutered version in the SI. Something like 230 HP with a helical LSD. Or just a non turbo 2.0.

 

[grambles423]

I'm thinking a severely neutered version in the SI. Something like 230 HP with a helical LSD. Or just a non turbo 2.0.

Not quite. Not a bad guess.

There is much to be had with the next gen though.

 

[grambles423]

I'd be interested to see how well this sells in Europe. There has been recent talk of American Honda investigating the Type R market here through various sources, but I believe they understand they couldn't sell a $35K+ FWD Civic.

Even if they had an American Type R with mid 300hp for the price of an STI, people would look toward AWD over FWD. Granted, there IS a pronounced market for "Type R" anything moniker. Strangely enough. Despite what people on these forums want, it sounds like there is a good case for it.

This thing needs to REALLY be an epic Type R to get over the FN2 fog and to make a case for its other hatch rivals.

 

[maxtdi]

I fail to see how it is even better than a 26k WRX ... which has roughly same HP+AWD. Comparing it to an STI is not right....

 

[grambles423]

I fail to see how it is even better than a 26k WRX ... which has roughly same HP+AWD. Comparing it to an STI is not right....

Faster. ( IF BURGRING TIME = TRUE), More Power (As mentioned earlier). Better Handling (Adaptive Suspension). Better Quality Build Overall. Racing Seats. Legit Stereo. Features Features Features. Mechanical LSD. MPG. LEDs. Brembos. etc.

If they achieve their targets, it will out perform the STI.

How exactly does the WRX better it? I can see the AWD vs. FWD, but this day and age, there are many ways to combat it. The WRX is a fun ride, but variable damping alone can clutch a win over it.

 

[Sonnytron]

I fail to see how it is even better than a 26k WRX ... which has roughly same HP+AWD. Comparing it to an STI is not right....

One of my biggest issues shopping for a WRX was how "limited" the base model was. You couldn't add navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors or anything. Even one feature would require a step up to limited or premium which is at minimum $28,000.

Option up a WRX and it sails above $33,000 quickly and it'll be slower than the Type R. (Fixed)

A $26k WRX is great bang for buck but option for option even an SI gives you more luxury out the door.

It's comparable to the STI primarily due to performance and features. The STI is even worse than the WRX for options: throw on premium leather, navigation and you've got yourself a $42,000 car.

 

[grambles423]

One of my biggest issues shopping for a WRX was how "limited" the base model was. You couldn't add navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors or anything. Even one feature would require a step up to limited or premium which is at minimum $28,000.

Option up a WRX and it sails above $33,000 quickly and it'll be slower than the Type R. (Fixed)

A $26k WRX is great bang for buck but option for option even an SI gives you more luxury out the door.

It's comparable to the STI primarily due to performance and features. The STI is even worse than the WRX for options: throw on premium leather, navigation and you've got yourself a $42,000 car.

Agreed. I need my features as well.

And I completely agree with the last statement. Its tough to sell any car at $42K without consider the wide band of options in that price range.

 

[maxtdi]

Faster. ( IF BURGRING TIME = TRUE), More Power (As mentioned earlier). Better Handling (Adaptive Suspension). Better Quality Build Overall. Racing Seats. Legit Stereo. Features Features Features. Mechanical LSD. MPG. LEDs. Brembos. etc.

If they achieve their targets, it will out perform the STI.

How exactly does the WRX better it? I can see the AWD vs. FWD, but this day and age, there are many ways to combat it. The WRX is a fun ride, but variable damping alone can clutch a win over it.

True AWD? Great Price, Great resale, great handling.

I'd like to see anything on this new civic that proves it is worthy of even being compared to one. The current gen SI can't hold a candle to any comparable car and always comes up last. Yes it has a standard backup cam but who cares.

Right now the "targets" are speculation. Honda hasn't made any kind of performance car in ages. I don't see that changing unless you can tell us this type R will in fact make it here with 100% certainty. Otherwise this is pointless.

 

[Sonnytron]

True AWD? Great Price, Great resale, great handling.

I'd like to see anything on this new civic that proves it is worthy of even being compared to one. The current gen SI can't hold a candle to any comparable car and always comes up last. Yes it has a standard backup cam but who cares.

He isn't and no one is saying that it will get here. People are hoping it will but it's all speculation.

As for the Type R versus Base WRX, it's not a direct comparison. You can't just compare a base WRX to a Type R because a base WRX has nothing on it except seats and a drivetrain. You would HAVE to compare the Limited 6MT because:
Type R has leather, premium audio, Brembo brakes, better tires, all weather package, no fog lights(edit) and back-up camera by default. I would be surprised if it didn't have LED lights.
Premium WRX has: cloth seats, sunroof, spoiler and heated seats/mirrors but no leather, no premium audio and Xenon lights.
Limited is the only WRX that comes with leather and the other features. And you still have to pay $2500 to add navigation versus $700'ish from Honda.

So that's $30,790 for the WRX Limited 6MT versus $35,000 estimated for the Type R and the Type R will be faster. It'll be at least 200-300 pounds lighter and is essentially a K20 with a built shortblock and head with a turbo thrown on top, probably something twin scroll the same size as a K03 or K04. So you have K20 top end with a twin scroll at around 280-300 horsepower and better grip and an LSD.

The Type R is absolutely a category higher than the WRX, the question is whether or not US buyers will justify it or Honda can justify selling it here. I have no disagreements about the following:
The Type R will > ST, MS3, GTI, WRX.
So will the Focus RS.
But will we get it? I don't think we will and that's where me and grambles disagree.

Also, grambles423 might want to add this to your OP:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...her-bucket-seats-and-brembo-brakes-87210.html

Also:
Honda is claiming that the Type R in production trim will be the fastest FWD car to ever lap the Nurburgring. You should understand that an automanufacturer will not make claims like this without being able to back them up. You should also know that the fastest FWD car to lap, to date, was the Seat Leon Cupra with 276 bhp at a time of 7:58.4. This time is very important for a reason. The reason is because these are the five cars faster than it, production tested: Honda NSX-R, Ferrari 360 Challenge, Porsche Panamera Turbo, Porsche 911 Turbo. The five slower: C6 Z51 Corvette, CTS-V, 911 Carrera S, R33 GTR Spec-V, SRT10 Viper.

This basically means Honda is coming out and saying that their Type R will post a verified time that's around the same speed as a Honda NSX-R, maybe as fast as a C5 Z06.

Now unless you think a base WRX is capable of beating those cars, then you have to understand that this car is NOT in the same field of comparisons you're thinking of. Straight line speed =/ the only metric of performance.

 

[maxtdi]

Unless the "type R" comes with AWD I don't see the point in anything over 250hp to the wrong wheels. And at 35k it will be a really tough sell, considering it would have to compete with cars that have real power like the mustang/camaro/challenger/370z/sti

 

[willmk4]

Idk I like how it looks. Looks weird, but cool

 

[mk6medic]

I am with Grammy on this one. It has a huge market for it here. Lots of Honda lovers have been begging for another Type R. It will offer more for the money becauseHonda than a WRX.

My only eh about it is the fact it only revs to 7k. My 98 Cobra just about hits that. I would have expected 7500 or so at minimum for a car with the Type R moniker. Though if I wanted one it would not keep me from buying it.

 

[Sonnytron]

Unless the "type R" comes with AWD I don't see the point in anything over 250hp to the wrong wheels. And at 35k it will be a really tough sell, considering it would have to compete with cars that have real power like the mustang/camaro/challenger/370z/sti

I agree it will be a tough sell, but I disagree about "real power". Four of the cars you listed are slower on the Nurburgring than the Seat Leon Cupra which Honda is saying it will post a better time than.

 

[barische]

rumors were that honda was trying to beat "8 min nurburgring lap time" because Renault megan rs supposedly posted time under 8 min. So honda was focused on building car to do their sub 8 min. supposedly rumors were that type R did 7:46.
now renault is doing rs2xx with plans on going under 7:45.

one of the youtube videos said that, one of the honda of canada was told that Type R is coming to them. this employee told this to the youtube reporter.. i know its all hearsay but keep your hopes up. usually any car that comes to canada will probly will come to US..

those of you shitting on the emission standards will be surprised that honda is focused on 40 mpg on highway from this type-R..

as far as market goes, why not another competitor in the 30k range.. how many ppl have paid 36k for golf R which is a hopped up turbo yaris. there is a market for this car as so many die hard honda SI fans.

type-R looks amazing IMO, 276hp , 295 ftlbs torque, mechanical limited slip diff, 5 doors, auto or 6 speed manual. - come on!!!! it freaking has everything the GTI is lacking + a sick nurburgring bragging time (7:46)...

more info on the battle
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...d-testing-against-mercedes-a45-amg-81227.html

 

[mk6medic]

rumors were that honda was trying to beat "8 min nurburgring lap time" because Renault megan rs supposedly posted time under 8 min. So honda was focused on building car to do their sub 8 min. supposedly rumors were that type R did 7:46.
now renault is doing rs2xx with plans on going under 7:45.

one of the youtube videos said that, one of the honda of canada was told that Type R is coming to them. this employee told this to the youtube reporter.. i know its all hearsay but keep your hopes up. usually any car that comes to canada will probly will come to US..

those of you shitting on the emission standards will be surprised that honda is focused on 40 mpg on highway from this type-R..

as far as market goes, why not another competitor in the 30k range.. how many ppl have paid 36k for golf R which is a hopped up turbo yaris. there is a market for this car as so many die hard honda SI fans.

type-R looks amazing IMO, 276hp , 295 ftlbs torque, mechanical limited slip diff, 5 doors, auto or 6 speed manual. - come on!!!! it freaking has everything the GTI is lacking + a sick nurburgring bragging time (7:46)...

more info on the battle
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...d-testing-against-mercedes-a45-amg-81227.html

Not as many as you think. They were slow sellers....