Suspension option/ idea for GSW

[TwinDad]

I have a GSW tsi. I know this has the independent rear like the GTI unlike the regular golf and the tdi wagon. Due to the wheel arch design, the car appears to have a negative rake. I also understand that any springs designed for the golf or gti can increase this look without using an additional spacer. I don't want to slam the car down or change the ride quality. So my question or thought is, keep the rear as it is, but use the front springs from a gti. How much lower does a gti sit compared to the golf. I don't want it to be jacked up in the back. The other question is how thick is the existing spacer in the rear? Can I just add a thinner one? This way I can just do gti fronts, stock rears and then maybe add a larger rear sway bar for handling. I also heard the golf R springs will make a stock golf or gti sit higher because the R is heavier. Would the stock R springs work on the GSW? Or would the front also sit higher? I've read everything I could find as well as 82 pages on Vortex. This has not been covered

 

[breaking badly]

The GTI is sitting 15 mm lower, but sadly you cannot expect a 1.8 TSI
to be the same with GTI (front) springs as the GTI engine and gearbox
is slightly heavier. Remember it's a flexible spring, not a rigid item, which
defines the ride height along with the mass weighing on it.
Honestly I couldn't guesstimate the resulting ride height with GTI springs.
If you want to try that out (someone needs to be the first), yes, both
GTI and R* springs would physically fit. Take care to get manual springs,
not DSG ones.
Raising the rear with TT spring pads is a much easier way to even things
out anyway.

Did I mention I'd consider getting DG springs? click


* R is 20 mm lower but even heavier due to 4WD

 

[MeltedSolid]

I did the math on this a while back, but I've since forgot it all and any attempt to replicate it isn't getting the same results. Anyways, after guesstimating based on some spring rates posted online and the weight distribution as tested by car and driver, I would expect both the GTI and R front springs to make little to no difference in ride height from stock, probably with the R being right at stock, and the GTI being maybe 3mm lower, and their rear springs to lower you considerably (at least 20mm) because your weight over the rear axle is greater than both of them. If I were you I'd probably go with one of the aftermarket options out there.

Also, some pride here, the base golf has independent rear suspension as well, it's only the TDI that doesn't have independent rear.

 

[TwinDad]

The GTI is sitting 15 mm lower, but sadly you cannot expect a 1.8 TSI
to be the same with GTI (front) springs as the GTI engine and gearbox
is slightly heavier. Remember it's a flexible spring, not a rigid item, which
defines the ride height along with the mass weighing on it.
Honestly I couldn't guesstimate the resulting ride height with GTI springs.
If you want to try that out (someone needs to be the first), yes, both
GTI and R* springs would physically fit. Take care to get manual springs,
not DSG ones.
Raising the rear with TT spring pads is a much easier way to even things
out anyway.

Did I mention I'd consider getting DG springs? click


* R is 20 mm lower but even heavier due to 4WD

The tsi engine will not necessarily be lighter than the gti. It's the same exact engine with a shorter stroke. My tsi is an auto. Automatic transmissions are heavier than manuals, but I'm not sure about the dsg. If I had to put money on it, I would say that the 1.8tsi with auto is heavier than the combinations in the gti. What I needed to know you answered. The gti sits 15mm lower or about 5/8".

 

[TwinDad]

I did the math on this a while back, but I've since forgot it all and any attempt to replicate it isn't getting the same results. Anyways, after guesstimating based on some spring rates posted online and the weight distribution as tested by car and driver, I would expect both the GTI and R front springs to make little to no difference in ride height from stock, probably with the R being right at stock, and the GTI being maybe 3mm lower, and their rear springs to lower you considerably (at least 20mm) because your weight over the rear axle is greater than both of them. If I were you I'd probably go with one of the aftermarket options out there.

Also, some pride here, the base golf has independent rear suspension as well, it's only the TDI that doesn't have independent rear.

Wasn't sure about the golf. Too bad for those diesel guys. I did see your classified post about the golf R springs, and that's how I knew they were higher on the regular golf. I was just curious about if it was front and rear. I might go ahead and give the gti front springs a shot soon. They sell cheap enough used that it might be worth the effort. A little drop in the front and the rear stock is the ultimate goal. I don't want to go as low as the aftermarket offers. Less than an inch if possible. Firming it up as well is a plus. Thanks

 

[MeltedSolid]

Yea, I'm glad I don't have a vw diesel, that's for sure . And as it turns out I'm horrible at advertising. Driver gear springs are probably the best bet for you as I think they usually only lower ~0.6", but I don't know where you would get a hold of only the front springs. Although having the option to swap the rear springs as well would probably be a good idea if you decide you don't like the back where it is. The weight on the front axle of the sportwagen is almost the same as on the base golf, but a good amount lighter than on the GTI, all the extra weight on the sportwagen is that extended trunk over the rear axle, adding about 200lbs there (Still impressively light for a wagen).

 

[TwinDad]

I tried to look up transmission weights. From what I can find is that the 6spd dsg is about 205lbs and the 6spd tiptronic is 184lbs. It didn't state weather that was with fluid or not. I'm also not sure if that's the same tip in the golf. It was the 09g. We are talking 20lbs at most. The engines are probably identical because the block, heads etc are all the same. The shorter stoke means a little less rod, but maybe more piston skirt. Again negligible. My car sits at 27" front and 26.5" rear. I think the gti fronts may be the winners. Unfortunately I might have to wait until spring to find out. I think a tune is going to come first unless the negative rake bothers me too much

 

[TwinDad]

Yea, I'm glad I don't have a vw diesel, that's for sure . And as it turns out I'm horrible at advertising. Driver gear springs are probably the best bet for you as I think they usually only lower ~0.6", but I don't know where you would get a hold of only the front springs. Although having the option to swap the rear springs as well would probably be a good idea if you decide you don't like the back where it is. The weight on the front axle of the sportwagen is almost the same as on the base golf, but a good amount lighter than on the GTI, all the extra weight on the sportwagen is that extended trunk over the rear axle, adding about 200lbs there (Still impressively light for a wagen).

What makes it lighter than the gti up front? Just curious what else is going on other than the .2 liter and slightly larger turbo.

 

[breaking badly]

The tsi engine will not necessarily be lighter than the gti. It's the same exact engine with a shorter stroke. My tsi is an auto. Automatic transmissions are heavier than manuals, but I'm not sure about the dsg. If I had to put money on it, I would say that the 1.8tsi with auto is heavier than the combinations in the gti. What I needed to know you answered. The gti sits 15mm lower or about 5/8".

Less stroke means crankshaft weighing less, smaller turbo means less weight.
I agree that it isn't much, but along with the gearbox it's still some difference.
Tthe point is, compare the factory specs for both 1.8 TSI and GTI, and notice
the difference. Well, what parts are different? Engine (to a lesser degree) and
gearbox (MQ250 vs MQ350 and slushbox vs DQ250). Battery (?), brakes (no
sprung weight, doesn't matter for springs).
I accept the bet. I'd say the DQ250 DSG is heavier than the (Aisin?) Auto as
the DQ250/02E is so much stronger.

I tried to look up transmission weights. From what I can find is that the 6spd dsg is about 205lbs and the 6spd tiptronic is 184lbs. It didn't state weather that was with fluid or not. I'm also not sure if that's the same tip in the golf. It was the 09g. We are talking 20lbs at most. The engines are probably identical because the block, heads etc are all the same. The shorter stoke means a little less rod, but maybe more piston skirt. Again negligible. My car sits at 27" front and 26.5" rear. I think the gti fronts may be the winners. Unfortunately I might have to wait until spring to find out. I think a tune is going to come first unless the negative rake bothers me too much

Did I win the bet? Anyway, try the GTI springs. Just be aware swapping front
springs is more labour than doing the rears. Did you find the spring rates? I'd
guess the GTI springs to be about 50 % stiffer compared to the Golf springs.
That's not unbearable of course, but it's clearly noticeable.

Report back.

 

[TwinDad]

Less stroke means crankshaft weighing less, smaller turbo means less weight.
I agree that it isn't much, but along with the gearbox it's still some difference.
Tthe point is, compare the factory specs for both 1.8 TSI and GTI, and notice
the difference. Well, what parts are different? Engine (to a lesser degree) and
gearbox (MQ250 vs MQ350 and slushbox vs DQ250). Battery (?), brakes (no
sprung weight, doesn't matter for springs).
I accept the bet. I'd say the DQ250 DSG is heavier than the (Aisin?) Auto as
the DQ250/02E is so much stronger.



Did I win the bet? Anyway, try the GTI springs. Just be aware swapping front
springs is more labour than doing the rears. Did you find the spring rates? I'd
guess the GTI springs to be about 50 % stiffer compared to the Golf springs.
That's not unbearable of course, but it's clearly noticeable.

Report back.

I would say that I'll buy you a drink if you're ever in NJ. Not sure if you win though. I'm not 100% sure that the auto trans in the GSW is the aisin 09g or not. The gear ratios are different from what I see listed for it. I also can't find the weights with fluid. I did say the engine and trans combination weight. You did bring up a point but dismissed it as sprung weight. The gti uses larger brakes, roll bars and wheels. Overall the weight difference I can find from car and driver weighing them is that the gti dsg weighs less than 100lbs more than the golf auto when they both have sunroofs. Not sure what else is contributing to the weight difference. Different seats? Like I was saying, the engine combination weights are minimal and the overall weight difference is minimal. I guess the only way to find out is to be the Guinea pig. I know the DG springs might be a good match as well like meltedsolid said, but I don't want the ride too much stiffer than stock. Hopefully it's something I can tackle sooner or later. I did a mix and match once before on my Audi A6 avant. Someone put race springs up front with sports in the back. I was able to pick up the sports for cheap from him and used factory sport springs in the rear for the sedan. It sat nice with the rear just a tad higher. That's how I came up with this idea. I'll post pics with the results when I do it. Thanks for the help. Don't forget about the drink of your in the NYC area

 

[TwinDad]

A guy in here is local to me and he turned me on to a Facebook group for the area. He's hooking me up with his stock springs. Just have to find the time to give them a try