Superpro lower control arms with added caster - Alignment concerns

[bbroecker37]

I just installed Superpro control arms with positive caster and Racingline lowering springs. I got an alignment done and I'm concerned something might be wrong. I got the sheet back from the shop and the caster on the left is off by .6 degrees compared to the right. Also noticed the car was pulling to the right on the highway. The only other suspension mod I have is a subframe deadset kit.

 

[1970something]

I have been told my a reputable shop near me that they don’t recommend deadset kits because they use the subframe to dial in the left/right camber and caster differences. Meaning they move the subframe around in the clearance holes until camber and caster are even left and right, then tighten it down.

Could also be that the laser measurement system is wrong or perhaps you hit something that pushed one of the wheels back a bit?

 

[bbroecker37]

I have been told my a reputable shop near me that they don’t recommend deadset kits because they use the subframe to dial in the left/right camber and caster differences. Meaning they move the subframe around in the clearance holes until camber and caster are even left and right, then tighten it down.

Could also be that the laser measurement system is wrong or perhaps you hit something that pushed one of the wheels back a bit?

I see, The last time I got an alignment was with the stock control arms everything was in the green. This was with the deadset kit installed. I did get rear-ended after the original alignment was done but I don't think that would change anything in the front end. The car was driving straight. I'll have to look into maybe removing the deadset kit or the superpro lower control arms may have a defect.

 

[krs]

I see, The last time I got an alignment was with the stock control arms everything was in the green. This was with the deadset kit installed. I did get rear-ended after the original alignment was done but I don't think that would change anything in the front end. The car was driving straight. I'll have to look into maybe removing the deadset kit or the superpro lower control arms may have a defect.

The shop that recommends not having a deadset kit is using that to their advantage, at your expense.

My caster is not equal side to side, and it’s a non issue. The not tracking straight is due to their alignment, that they should correct.

 

[1970something]

The shop that recommends not having a deadset kit is using that to their advantage, at your expense.

My caster is not equal side to side, and it’s a non issue. The not tracking straight is due to their alignment, that they should correct.

Hey KRS, could you elaborate? I’m not opposed to being wrong but I’m not seeing how not using a deadset kit would be to their advantage and my expense. If anything it means they are not selling me a DS kit

 

[TheBlondeFella]

I spoke to a VAG tuning specialist about alignment and deadset kits and they said the that the only time they have ever had issues aligning a MK7 Golf was when it had a deadset kit fitted. As soon as they removed the kit, the alignment was perfect.

 

[krs]

What's the intent behind a deadset kit? To maintain the alignment of the subframe, set consistent and proper geometry, mitigate the potential shifting and clunking of things eventually moving? This problem is not unique to VAG cars, pretty much any car with a subframe nowadays is really the same design.

So yes, your alignment "specialist" is using the slop in the subframe to their advantage. It gives them a easy, quick method to manipulate your alignment so that when you see the green on the alignment sheet you're happy. It's not that this is the wrong way of doing it. It's just not the best way of doing it. So yeah, they'll say ditch the collars, as it makes their job easier. This will also bring you back sooner when you're alignment is out of spec in the future. If by adding a deadset kit prevents them from getting you an accurate alignment, there's either other components that are at fault, their skill level is not there, or they're looking to do the job quicker to move to the next one, so they tell you to remove them.

Just my opinion based on my experiences, and knowledge of the subject. I have NEVER had issues with my alignments with deadset kits, on any of my cars. I also don't pay $80 for an alignment from some basic tire shop either.

 

[1970something]

What you’re saying makes total sense for toe, which is an adjustable parameter from the factory. I’m talking about camber and caster, which (as far as I know) can’t be adjusted except by shifting the subframe. I don’t view it as the shop being lazy, more like there’s no other way to do it unless you install aftermarket adjustable parts

 

[krs]

What you’re saying makes total sense for toe, which is an adjustable parameter from the factory. I’m talking about camber and caster, which (as far as I know) can’t be adjusted except by shifting the subframe. I don’t view it as the shop being lazy, more like there’s no other way to do it unless you install aftermarket adjustable parts

I never said lazy, shifting the subframe to equalize settings is not a poor way of doing things. It's just the nature of the business using the slop in the subframe to get things within spec (green) and sending you on your way. So having a deadset kit prevents that tech from utilizing that same slop, which is why they tell you to not use it. You are paying them for an alignment, not to fix your suspension issues. I'm sure those specialist also don't think you need to replace the TTY bolts either? They just loosen them up, tighten as needed, and send you on your way? Which in turn adds another failure point for movement and creaking down the road.

To the OP, I would take the car back and ask them to correct the issue of the car pulling to the right. As a rule, caster angles should usually be within .5° or less of each other side-to-side. If there is a greater difference in caster angles side-to-side, it may cause the vehicle to pull toward the side with the least amount of positive caster, or the most negative caster. In the OP's case, that would be to the left. If the tech recognized this, and tried to compensate, it sounds like they should look again. Could be both the right side toe settings are out further than the left, which could cause the car to ever slightly track to the right.

But why is your caster that far off? Look into that. I'm guessing other components were not replaced as they should be with the spring install? Hard to narrow it all down from the single post.

Sure the easy answer is to pull that deadset kit out, and let them move things around with the slop on the subframe. I'd at least ask them to tighten things back up the correct way. From there actually check your alignment annually to get it readjusted back.

 

[bbroecker37]

I never said lazy, shifting the subframe to equalize settings is not a poor way of doing things. It's just the nature of the business using the slop in the subframe to get things within spec (green) and sending you on your way. So having a deadset kit prevents that tech from utilizing that same slop, which is why they tell you to not use it. You are paying them for an alignment, not to fix your suspension issues. I'm sure those specialist also don't think you need to replace the TTY bolts either? They just loosen them up, tighten as needed, and send you on your way? Which in turn adds another failure point for movement and creaking down the road.

To the OP, I would take the car back and ask them to correct the issue of the car pulling to the right. As a rule, caster angles should usually be within .5° or less of each other side-to-side. If there is a greater difference in caster angles side-to-side, it may cause the vehicle to pull toward the side with the least amount of positive caster, or the most negative caster. In the OP's case, that would be to the left. If the tech recognized this, and tried to compensate, it sounds like they should look again. Could be both the right side toe settings are out further than the left, which could cause the car to ever slightly track to the right.

But why is your caster that far off? Look into that. I'm guessing other components were not replaced as they should be with the spring install? Hard to narrow it all down from the single post.

Sure the easy answer is to pull that deadset kit out, and let them move things around with the slop on the subframe. I'd at least ask them to tighten things back up the correct way. From there actually check your alignment annually to get it readjusted back.

Thanks for your help, I'll take it back and see what they say. I do have the lifetime warranty with them but I feel they aren't the best. I'll also look around for a different shop that is more reputable. As for the lowering springs. What other components should be changed? I'm also curious how it would affect caster.

 

[tigeo]

Here is my alignment with the SP LCAs, H&R springs and Tyrolsport deadset kit on my Sportwagen.