Recommended pad / polish combo for VW paint?

[riceburner]

Well, i consider myself to have really strong detailing game, but i haven't been able to quite master polishing yet.

I have 7424XP, as well as a Torq10FX, both random orbital polishers.

I've tried a few different pads and polishes, HEX Logic pads, microfiber pads, i think a wool pad, etc.

I know its best to blow the pad out here and there to release paint/polish dust.

I do fully 'strip' the paint of seals prior to polishing.

But somehow i just can't seem to make much progress; maybe i'll get the surface swirls gone but theres always more i can see, plus the haze of polishing. just can't seem to get that clear glass finish....

any tips? VW paint is hard. I've even tried varying levels of speed and pressure. just dont know what else to do.

 

[Maiden69]

There are too many variables to just recommend a pad-polish combo. I have several Sonax, Mezerna combos that I use, and also used the Optimum spray polish and compound as they were "required" before applying their professional coatings. I think the main issue you are having is the application method. The 7424 and the 10FX are 8mm RO, so there isn't much material removed by them... which means you have to be more careful as you have to work the area longer to get the same results as with a 15 or 21mm machine. You need a "harder" foam pad for those, the softer pad will wobble with the machine nullifying its effectiveness.

Check out Larry's Channel and look for Kevin Brown's videos there as well. He has a video explaining the pros-cons of the 7424.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AMMONYCdotcom

 

[riceburner]

thanks! i've been all over larrys channel for years! he's a big inspiration for a big portion of my techniques i use today. could be that, yep, my polishers are kind of weak sauce.

 

[victorofhavoc]

A heavier pad does damage to level the scratches. The harder the pad the more damage is left behind. Are you sure you're not just seeing the leftover scratches from a heavy pad/compound? If you move to a much lighter combo does it take out the swirls and scratches?

If you're seeing haze you need to stop to clean your pad more, use more water/lube, or use less compound. Wool pads can be very aggressive and will definitely leave behind some deep cuts. You have to back out the aggressiveness level after using a heavy pad. You can't just go from wool to ultralight pad and a polish level compound. Always take polishing in stages, using the weakest pad/compound to pull out the scratches.

Also German paint is the hardest I have ever worked with. It scratches easily, but the scratches are typically not deep and it's usually pretty easy to polish out. It just takes time, even pressure, and slow/steady movements.

 

[Maiden69]

use more water/lube, or use less compound.

This sounds like advise for a rotary polisher or for 3M and Meguiars polishes, I don't waste my time with those... Too many variables to deal with vs new polishes out there. Also, there is no need for compound to take swirls out, just a fine polish.

Also German paint is the hardest I have ever worked with. It scratches easily, but the scratches are typically not deep and it's usually pretty easy to polish out. It just takes time, even pressure, and slow/steady movements.

Not necessarily true. Porsche paint, especially early 2000 to around 2016 is extremely soft in comparison. Black Mercedes sucks. Some Audi paint are a pain, my wife's 2020 Q5 Moonlight Blue Metallic was difficult, I should be working on her new 2022 SQ5 in Navarra Blue Metallic and judging by the swirls already on it seems like a harder paint.

The GTI paint is ridiculously thin vs the Audi, and seems hard and brittle as it chips easily.

 

[victorofhavoc]

This sounds like advise for a rotary polisher or for 3M and Meguiars polishes, I don't waste my time with those... Too many variables to deal with vs new polishes out there. Also, there is no need for compound to take swirls out, just a fine polish.

Not necessarily true. Porsche paint, especially early 2000 to around 2016 is extremely soft in comparison. Black Mercedes sucks. Some Audi paint are a pain, my wife's 2020 Q5 Moonlight Blue Metallic was difficult, I should be working on her new 2022 SQ5 in Navarra Blue Metallic and judging by the swirls already on it seems like a harder paint.

The GTI paint is ridiculously thin vs the Audi, and seems hard and brittle as it chips easily.

This all came off very dismissive...

Water and lube aren't just for rotary. They're there to prevent overheating. When newcomers to polishing have issues, a good chunk of the time it's from overuse or overwork of the polish or compound. This is especially true when I hear things like "pad glaze." Water and lube help solve that problem until they can pick up pace and prevent the product from drying. And I used compound interchangeably in my statement for polish...my bad.

Porsche is always special.

Moonlight blue is the same as our "ink blue" on our q7, supposedly. Pretty color. That is ridiculously hard paint to deal with but it is forgiving. I polished one area with heavy compound for 4 passes after someone used a frozen brush to do me a favor and break off the ice on the hood... Barely made progress. I had to bust out a heavy wool pad. After a lot of effort and energy spent I thought I wore the clear down a lot.... Nope still reading upper 4s everywhere!

 

[riceburner]

A heavier pad does damage to level the scratches. The harder the pad the more damage is left behind. Are you sure you're not just seeing the leftover scratches from a heavy pad/compound? If you move to a much lighter combo does it take out the swirls and scratches?

If you're seeing haze you need to stop to clean your pad more, use more water/lube, or use less compound. Wool pads can be very aggressive and will definitely leave behind some deep cuts. You have to back out the aggressiveness level after using a heavy pad. You can't just go from wool to ultralight pad and a polish level compound. Always take polishing in stages, using the weakest pad/compound to pull out the scratches.

Also German paint is the hardest I have ever worked with. It scratches easily, but the scratches are typically not deep and it's usually pretty easy to polish out. It just takes time, even pressure, and slow/steady movements.

great points - so to be clear, i do understand the 'start agressive (only if needed) and work your way up from there till you are just kissing the paint with a finisher.
what my problem is, i can't even seem to get past the deeper swirls in the first place, so i know i may be seeing some haze left behind from my polishing step, but i'm not even too concerned about that because the job isnt even done yet lol.

 

[riceburner]

so like here's my approach to polishing thus far, please add a step if i'm missing something.

• wash
• decon spray/clay
• strip sealant off
• dry
• start with my 15mm polisher, a 5" pad (lets say medium cut hex foam pad?) and a sonax cutting compound.
• work a small ~1'-2'x1'x2' area to see if i can get past all the swirl marks or light imperfections.
• just enough polish to ensure no part of the pad is dry. work up down, left right, applying approx 15lbs of pressure, work the area until you see the polish start to glaze, at which point you are wasting time and risking damage. blow out pad every few areas.
• if it does NOT achieve all of that, move onto something more aggressive (i think the sonax cutting compound is pretty substantial so this would be a pad upgrade, like microfiber.)
• if that doesnt work, move onto wool
• If that doesnt work...? At this point i may be using a good ~20lbs of pressure, fair amount of time, passes, etc.
• again might in fact be my polishers are weak but still.
• ~~magic where someone gives me an aha moment that gets me past this step?~~
• then of course redo areas that are scratch free with polishing/finishing compounds, seal it, yadda yadda

 

[Maiden69]

Overworking the polishes is a big problem, but adding water is not something that I would recommend to any beginner. Clean the area/pad and apply new polish. When you add water, you are not only lubricating the area, but you are circumventing the "oils" added to the micro-abrasives in the compound, making it cut harder than it would normally would. Kevin Brown, Larry and Jason Kilmer advises this for advance detailers to get that extra cut from the compounds, and they use it on Meguiars polishes exclusively.

start with my 15mm polisher,

None of your polishers listed above is a 15mm, they are both 8mm. What else do you have?

just enough polish to ensure no part of the pad is dry.

This is also not true to all polishes. Meguiars yes, Rupes don't recommend that, and Jason Rose (used to be Meguiars) works with Rupes now. Apply a few spots of polish on the pad, place it in the first area you are polishing and hold it steady for a few seconds, that should be enough to prime the pad. After that 2-3 small portions on the pad will be sufficient per area. Try not to cover more than a 2'x2' area at a time as you mentioned above... once you get a hang on how the polish you are using behaves you can adjust accordingly.

You said you tried different polishes, which ones? Maybe this is another "problem" you need to address.

Also, forget about lbs of pressure, too much pressure will negate the effectiveness of the polisher, especially the two ones you posted above.

-Wash with an all purpose cleaner (not in direct sunlight and avoid the glass if possible) this removes most sealants out there except the SiO2 types
-Do a chemical decontamination per panel with an iron remover/wheel cleaner
-Clay bar with ONR at double strength (any quick detailer has wax on it, that will bring you back to square one and will need to wash again to remove the wax)
-dry and start working

Depending on the polish you use, you will need to tape the black plastic and rubber trim. Optimum polishes are safe to use, The Last Cut is safe to use and can be used as a two step polish with a microfiber or wool pad for compound and then foam for polishing.

You need to cover the trim with Sonax. Which Sonax are you talking about? They have quite a few compounds and polishes.

Microfiber is as or more aggressive than wool. I do some one-step polishes with Rupes Yellow wool pads.

More channels

Look at any of his videos where he goes into detail on the preparation and choosing the right pad/polish combination.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CarCraftAutoDetailing

Todd gives a lot of basic knowledge and understanding on his products reviews
https://www.youtube.com/c/Esotericdetail

 

[riceburner]

^Thanks so much! Maybe i do have 8mm polishers; guess i'm not too sure of the technicals of them. I am planning to get a 21mm as someone else mentioned up near the top.

IDK for sure; i've used some various pads and polishes over the years, doesn't matter too much as i havent had much success yet lol. Can you recommend me your 'go-to's' for polishes and a few pads? I need to stock up either way.

Overworking the polishes is a big problem, but adding water is not something that I would recommend to any beginner. Clean the area/pad and apply new polish. When you add water, you are not only lubricating the area, but you are circumventing the "oils" added to the micro-abrasives in the compound, making it cut harder than it would normally would. Kevin Brown, Larry and Jason Kilmer advises this for advance detailers to get that extra cut from the compounds, and they use it on Meguiars polishes exclusively.

None of your polishers listed above is a 15mm, they are both 8mm. What else do you have? You may be right so disregard.

This is also not true to all polishes. Meguiars yes, Rupes don't recommend that, and Jason Rose (used to be Meguiars) works with Rupes now. Apply a few spots of polish on the pad, place it in the first area you are polishing and hold it steady for a few seconds, that should be enough to prime the pad. After that 2-3 small portions on the pad will be sufficient per area. Try not to cover more than a 2'x2' area at a time as you mentioned above... once you get a hang on how the polish you are using behaves you can adjust accordingly.I have also incorporated the few dots method; kind of depends what sort of pad i'm working with. if its a foam pad, definitely the few drops method.

You said you tried different polishes, which ones? Maybe this is another "problem" you need to address. ive tried chemicals guys v32, v36, mequiars 101 and their corresponding finishing polish, and sonax one step, and heavy cutting compounds. again if you have specifics you recommend i may just start fresh.

Also, forget about lbs of pressure, too much pressure will negate the effectiveness of the polisher, especially the two ones you posted above. good point - i could try varying pressures on the hood to see what works but with a better polisher either way

-Wash with an all purpose cleaner (not in direct sunlight and avoid the glass if possible) this removes most sealants out there except the SiO2 types
-Do a chemical decontamination per panel with an iron remover/wheel cleaner
-Clay bar with ONR at double strength (any quick detailer has wax on it, that will bring you back to square one and will need to wash again to remove the wax)
-dry and start working

agree - what do you recommend to use to remove polish while working? most detail sprays do reintroduce lubrication and protection. Isopropyl alcohol seems to leave streaks

Depending on the polish you use, you will need to tape the black plastic and rubber trim. Optimum polishes are safe to use, The Last Cut is safe to use and can be used as a two step polish with a microfiber or wool pad for compound and then foam for polishing.

You need to cover the trim with Sonax. Which Sonax are you talking about? They have quite a few compounds and polishes.

Microfiber is as or more aggressive than wool. I do some one-step polishes with Rupes Yellow wool pads.

More channels

Look at any of his videos where he goes into detail on the preparation and choosing the right pad/polish combination.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CarCraftAutoDetailing

Todd gives a lot of basic knowledge and understanding on his products reviews
https://www.youtube.com/c/Esotericdetail

 

[Maiden69]

^Thanks so much! Maybe i do have 8mm polishers; guess i'm not too sure of the technicals of them. I am planning to get a 21mm as someone else mentioned up near the top.

If you don't plan on getting a truck or something with a long straight panel get the 15mm. I bought Adams swirl killers when I first started seriously into detailing and I regret it when I opened my shop. They work great for doing one car every other week or more. First thing to go wsa the power switch. Thankfully the one for the Rupes was easily adapted.

If you can spend the money get the Rupes, or the Zentool that Optimum sales. It is on sale now.

Rupes Mark II is marked down from 399 to $299 since the upgrade came out, the MarkIII.
https://www.autogeek.net/rupes-lhr-15es-big-foot-polisher.html
Zeentool
https://optimumcarcare.com/product/zentool-zen-15e2-dual-action-polisher

And if you really have money to burn you can get Lake Country newest machine. It is an 8mm (which they call Sanding),12,15,21mm dual action and a rotary in one tool.
https://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-udos-51e-machine-polisher.html

I have one of each,
Adams 12mm 3" and 21mm 6", Zenntool 15mm 5", Flex PE14-2-150 Rotary, and Rupes iBrid Nano long neck. Once the Adams die I will replace them with Rupes Mark III, they are quieter than the Mark II.

Here is a list of my "to go"
SONAX Cut & Finish
SONAX CutMax Cutting
Sonax Perfect Finish 4/6
Sonax Ultimate Cut 6+
SONAX EX 04-06
The Last Cut
Optimum Hyper Polish and Hyper Compound

As far as pads I do like the Rupes pads, mostly Yellow and White foam, and their Purple and Yellow wool.

Lake Country also have great pads, and they are coded to be used by specific machines based on throw.

 

[riceburner]

thank you so much!

 

[GolfRRRR1]

Here is another detailer (White Details) working on a Golf R

 

[riceburner]

thanks! will watch.

i did order a bigger polisher, and will be getting some fresh polishes and pads soon. also guess i will need an actual air compressor for pad blowouts.

 

[Maiden69]

That coating is very forgiving, but please take your time. Any mistake that fully cures will have to be entirely buffed out again. You will need a prep-spray, either IPA with distilled water or an actual Prep cleaner before the coating. Some of these, including IPA water can make the paint swell hiding imperfections that will later show up under the coating. The same happens when you overheat the paint polishing.

Jim White is an awesome detailer. But his attention to detail is not what you will expect from detailers here in the US unless they are working on vehicles destined to an auto show. I don't think I have ever seen anyone truly detailing at his level. He has customers that send his vehicle to get detailed from all around the world from Europe to the US.