OIL TEMP GOING UP VERY QUICK

[fabr]

Very meticulous owner : 2019 gol f R . Stock no mods
25k miles.
Fresh oil/filter changed about 100 miles ago
Interval oil change about 6k- 7k miles, same fluid liqui-moly 5-40

ALL OF THE SUDDEN OIL TEMP GOES UP SUPER QUICK during normal driving

PLEASE ADVICE

THANK YOU

 

[tmw2442]

Define...SUPER QUICK.

OIL TEMP GOES UP...to what temperature?

PLEASE RESPOND

THANK YOU

 

[fabr]

Define...SUPER QUICK.

OIL TEMP GOES UP...to what temperature?

PLEASE RESPOND

THANK YOU

usually takes 3 miles and then start to read @ 124. Then it takes about 7min to go up, either way free -way or town , doesn t go above 200 (normal driving)
now goes up to 200 in few min and about 3 miles
just happened tonite
OUTSIDE TEMP AROUND 50*

THANKS

 

[tmw2442]

GoT ThE HeT-TaR oN FuLl BlAsT?

ASSUMING NO lIGHTS oN The DASH....!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? or have you done a vagcom/odb11 scan?

ConFIRM U R....RRRRR looking at OIL TEMP and not CooLANt TEMP....

WUT U STATE...seems normal for COOLANT temp. CONfirm U DUNDN'T FAT Finger or butt dial swipe the performance gauges in the MMI Display to coolant temp and you are THUNKING X-tremely HARD it's OIL temp, OR R you LOOK N at the DaSh?

Coolant takes 3-5 minutes -ish to reach 200 F on the gauge and "the gauge" stays showing "200" when the temperature is anywhere actually anywhere between 175 to 225 -ish, +/-5 F, decimal .33333333 repeating, of course.

Depending on outside temp, oil general takes 12-17 minutes to reach around 205-225 F on a stock tuned car, depending on Model Year and oil weight specified.

 

[fabr]

yes Sir , no lights on the dash
not i have not done any scan tools , because i do not own em
and i m sure 100% it is not the coolant
i m driving this car since 3 years and never seen the oil temp going out so rapidly in very short time in short driving , especially nite time with the outside temp 50ish and 5-40 fluid
something wrong, perhaps the oil sensor on the oil pan?
not sure
thanks for your interest

 

[DerHase]

Dude there's nothing wrong.

These cars keep the coolant still (zero flow) to warm up faster in certain conditions. This affects oil as a byproduct as well. I know this with certainty due to changing the coolant temp strategy in my own tune.

Here is a video detailing the heat management strategy on these cars:

There is nothing that restricts oil flow to change temps - it's affected by cooler or hotter coolant in the oil-coolant heat exchanger.

Coolant temps are basically temperature difference and speed based. If you drive faster, it will target a lower temp. If it's colder out, it will target a higher temp. The ECU targets the lower of either 2 tables. Oil temp changes a bit depending on load and relative coolant temps.

If your oil isn't going over 230F in normal driving (which is like worst case scenario in the heat of summer with a bit of tomfoolery in traffic) there's absolutely nothing wrong. I see 270F for 15-20min at a time when it's being beaten on track. There's nothing to worry about.

Also FYI the cluster is pretty accurate and seem it can be trusted once you're between 130-280F . I went down a rabbit hole of finding out if oil temps can be trusted or not about 6mo ago:

Post in thread 'DerHase's 2019 GTI Rabbit Edition: HPDE shenanigans'
https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.ph...-edition-hpde-shenanigans.401435/post-7916493

As stated above by @tmw2442 , coolant temp on the dash is a dummy gauge. Bottom line if it's not reading hot you're fine though.

 

[fabr]

Dude there's nothing wrong.

These cars keep the coolant still (zero flow) to warm up faster in certain conditions. This affects oil as a byproduct as well. I know this with certainty due to changing the coolant temp strategy in my own tune.

Here is a video detailing the heat management strategy on these cars:

There is nothing that restricts oil flow to change temps - it's affected by cooler or hotter coolant in the oil-coolant heat exchanger.

Coolant temps are basically temperature difference and speed based. If you drive faster, it will target a lower temp. If it's colder out, it will target a higher temp. The ECU targets the lower of either 2 tables. Oil temp changes a bit depending on load and relative coolant temps.

If your oil isn't going over 230F in normal driving (which is like worst case scenario in the heat of summer with a bit of tomfoolery in traffic) there's absolutely nothing wrong. I see 270F for 15-20min at a time when it's being beaten on track. There's nothing to worry about.

Also FYI the cluster is pretty accurate and seem it can be trusted once you're between 130-280F . I went down a rabbit hole of finding out if oil temps can be trusted or not about 6mo ago:

Post in thread 'DerHase's 2019 GTI Rabbit Edition: HPDE shenanigans'
https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.ph...-edition-hpde-shenanigans.401435/post-7916493

As stated above by @tmw2442 , coolant temp on the dash is a dummy gauge. Bottom line if it's not reading hot you're fine though.

thank you for your explanation and your time

 

[fabr]

thank you for your explanation and your time

i m just surprised and concerned because never happened before and i know my car behavior very well

 

[2018gti]

usually takes 3 miles and then start to read @ 124. Then it takes about 7min to go up, either way free -way or town , doesn t go above 200 (normal driving)
now goes up to 200 in few min and about 3 miles
just happened tonite
OUTSIDE TEMP AROUND 50*

THANKS

no that does not sound normal. from “- - -“ to 200F in a few minutes?? if this is the oil temp then I would guess something is wrong with the sensor. @fabr I would start the car cold and drive until it says a high number, then stop driving and try to see if that number is actually true, maybe touch the oil pan or oil filter or something.

 

[berserker6]

Thanx for sharing all that info @DerHase

 

[DerHase]

no that does not sound normal. from “- - -“ to 200F in a few minutes?? if this is the oil temp then I would guess something is wrong with the sensor. @fabr I would start the car cold and drive until it says a high number, then stop driving and try to see if that number is actually true, maybe touch the oil pan or oil filter or something.

I'd bet the 3 minutes is vastly over-exaggerated. Regardless, without the OP having Simos Tools, VCDS or OBD11 to actually datalog the oil temp, any further guessing is a waste of time. Unless it's instantly jumping from 60F to 90F (skipping everything in between)... I very much doubt anything is wrong. There are multiple sensor rationality checks that will set DTCs if there are errors. The sensor itself is it's own module that works similar to CAN that sends a diagnostic pulse after every temperature and oil level pulse has been sent.

Thanx for sharing all that info @DerHase

No problem!


For future reference: these are the two stock tables for my particular box code:

The X axis of the second one is labeled "axis for ratio of relative air charge"... My guess is that it's the difference between modeled turbocharger outlet temp (pre-intercooler) vs post-intercooler (as measured by the MAP/IAT sensor). Either way, up to about 50mph it's targeting approx 225f coolant temps.


The ONLY thing I can think of that might explain a change in behavior... is if the OPs car has gone to the dealer and it gotten an ECU flash update. Might be something changed in the tables that would affect the warm up, etc. Stuff like that is pretty common when new ECU updates are released.

 

[fabr]

I'd bet the 3 minutes is vastly over-exaggerated. Regardless, without the OP having Simos Tools, VCDS or OBD11 to actually datalog the oil temp, any further guessing is a waste of time. Unless it's instantly jumping from 60F to 90F (skipping everything in between)... I very much doubt anything is wrong. There are multiple sensor rationality checks that will set DTCs if there are errors. The sensor itself is it's own module that works similar to CAN that sends a diagnostic pulse after every temperature and oil level pulse has been sent.




No problem!


For future reference: these are the two stock tables for my particular box code:
View attachment 297546

The X axis of the second one is labeled "axis for ratio of relative air charge"... My guess is that it's the difference between modeled turbocharger outlet temp (pre-intercooler) vs post-intercooler (as measured by the MAP/IAT sensor). Either way, up to about 50mph it's targeting approx 225f coolant temps.


The ONLY thing I can think of that might explain a change in behavior... is if the OPs car has gone to the dealer and it gotten an ECU flash update. Might be something changed in the tables that would affect the warm up, etc. Stuff like that is pretty common when new ECU updates are released.

my car never went to the dealer. No trust

 

[DerHase]

Well then get a scan tool and actually log the oil sender output. There are two PIDs, one that is modeled and one that actually follows the dash directly (including the values below 122F). Cheapest and fastest ECU-specific logging will be Simos Tools if you have an Android device available.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/diy-data/st-getting-started

Buy an A0 dongle, follow the instructions to configure everything.

I have more info here that goes over customizing PID lists, and have a preconfigured one that will read what you need.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/diy-data/stcustomization

 

[fabr]

Well then get a scan tool and actually log the oil sender output. There are two PIDs, one that is modeled and one that actually follows the dash directly (including the values below 122F). Cheapest and fastest ECU-specific logging will be Simos Tools if you have an Android device available.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/diy-data/st-getting-started

Buy an A0 dongle, follow the instructions to configure everything.

I have more info here that goes over customizing PID lists, and have a preconfigured one that will read what you need.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/diy-data/stcustomization

many thanks

 

[The Fed]

Mine takes quite a bit of time to reach full operating temperature. No way it will ever be in just a few minutes even in near 100-degree F temperatures. Using 5W-30.