No APR Tune for the latest Golf 7 R

[CiDirkona]

FYI: Just so you know, piggyback will not work this time. If you did not already know that. But it is only a matter of time before they fix it.

What do you mean? Neuspeed Power Module wouldn't work on an encrypted ECU that APR hasn't cracked yet? It's just fooling the boost sensor signals, so I wouldn't expect this.

 

[Blackster]

What do you mean? Neuspeed Power Module wouldn't work on an encrypted ECU that APR hasn't cracked yet? It's just fooling the boost sensor signals, so I wouldn't expect this.

Thats correct..
Neuspeeds Piggyback is adapted to the old ECU. The new ECU makes some kind of check when you start the engine, it is something that deviates, the ECU goes after the initial configuration. Do not know how they managed that, but someone will find a workaround in the near future, that's for sure.
Im in the same situation, my car is bulit Week 23 so i just have to wait before i can go Stage 1 on my car or buy an old ecu from a wreked gti mk7... :/

 

[toledospeed]

You have a point. I would feel the same way. Remember, it's not what you mean on a forum, it's how it sounds.

This is all news to me too. I thought each generation had the same coding. Stupid me.

I'm an APR tune fan, having usied them since 2002, and I know "piggyback" tunes have been covered in detail, but even I'm leaning towards them. Personally, I don't like the Neuspeed piggy because it looks like it only fools the car's ECU, and modern engines are hard enough to keep running right with all of the crap on it. Please tell me how the JP1 or JP4 is any different.

JB1 piggy is also going to fool the ECU in the same manner as the NS PM does by intercepting bus messages and incrementally adding boost. The main difference between the two is that the JB1 also has an extra engine harness connection so that it can also increase fuel pressure along with the boost for smoother power delivery and less retarded ignition. It also has a flashable firmware that will carry multiple maps for different hw setups as well as water/meth injection trigger capability. Users can also connect to it with an cable to change boost level, whereas the NS is hardwired with a hardware switch to support +5 and +7 psi. There are a few threads where all this is covered, but I hope this summary helps.

FYI: Just so you know, piggyback will not work this time. If you did not already know that. But it is only a matter of time before they fix it.

Too bad, but I figure by the time I find a white R someone will figure it out.

What do you mean? Neuspeed Power Module wouldn't work on an encrypted ECU that APR hasn't cracked yet? It's just fooling the boost sensor signals, so I wouldn't expect this.

Thats correct..
Neuspeeds Piggyback is adapted to the old ECU. The new ECU makes some kind of check when you start the engine, it is something that deviates, the ECU goes after the initial configuration. Do not know how they managed that, but someone will find a workaround in the near future, that's for sure.
Im in the same situation, my car is bulit Week 23 so i just have to wait before i can go Stage 1 on my car or buy an old ecu from a wreked gti mk7... :/

Blackster, can you elaborate what you are talking about? It makes sense that APR would need the new box code for the newest R model to make the APR flash tune work (common knowledge for all Golfs when a newer box code comes out). Its just how it works and most are familiar.

However, it makes no sense that the piggybacks (NS PM or JB1) would not work. They work at a higher level by intercepting signals, i.e. they are piggy-backed directly into the engine harness. Are you saying that you have first hand knowledge of these piggybacks tuners not working on the newest Golf R? That makes no sense. These piggybacks don't care about ECU encryption...as long as the messages on the bus haven't changed, they will still work (and I don't see how they could as the sensors wouldn't work anymore). This is how the same model of NS and JB1 can work with any MK7 (Golf R, GTI, and 1.8 TSI).

 

[Blackster]

JB1 piggy is also going to fool the ECU in the same manner as the NS PM does by intercepting bus messages and incrementally adding boost. The main difference between the two is that the JB1 also has an extra engine harness connection so that it can also increase fuel pressure along with the boost for smoother power delivery and less retarded ignition. It also has a flashable firmware that will carry multiple maps for different hw setups as well as water/meth injection trigger capability. Users can also connect to it with an cable to change boost level, whereas the NS is hardwired with a hardware switch to support +5 and +7 psi. There are a few threads where all this is covered, but I hope this summary helps.



Blackster, can you elaborate what you are talking about? It makes sense that APR would need the new box code for the newest R model to make the APR flash tune work (common knowledge for all Golfs when a newer box code comes out). Its just how it works and most are familiar.

However, it makes no sense that the piggybacks (NS PM or JB1) would not work. They work at a higher level by intercepting signals, i.e. they are piggy-backed directly into the engine harness. Are you saying that you have first hand knowledge of these piggybacks tuners not working on the newest Golf R? That makes no sense. These piggybacks don't care about ECU encryption...as long as the messages on the bus haven't changed, they will still work (and I don't see how they could as the sensors wouldn't work anymore). This is how the same model of NS and JB1 can work with any MK7 (Golf R, GTI, and 1.8 TSI).

Has no obligation to explain something to you.
This is the information I received because I'm waiting for Stage 1 upgrade, I am one of those who encountered for this.
But since you are so sure you can of course show us a fully functional piggyback solution for a Golf GTI / R manufactured after March / April 2015

 

[toledospeed]

Has no obligation to explain something to you.
This is the information I received because I'm waiting for Stage 1 upgrade, I am one of those who encountered for this.
But since you are so sure you can of course show us a fully functional piggyback solution for a Golf GTI / R manufactured after March / April 2015

I understand you have no obligation, but I am not sure you can explain it to me anyhow. Perhaps it is just a language barrier or something, I mean no ill harm. Since you are here sharing this information on a public forum, and since it goes counter to what community would expect, we are going to ask some questions. Just because I am told something, I don't just believe it. if I read between the lines...a tuning shop told you that since the APR flash won't work, then no piggybacks will work either. Hmmm. Ok then.

 

[Blackster]

I understand you have no obligation, but I am not sure you can explain it to me anyhow. Perhaps it is just a language barrier or something, I mean no ill harm. Since you are here sharing this information on a public forum, and since it goes counter to what community would expect, we are going to ask some questions. Just because I am told something, I don't just believe it. if I read between the lines...a tuning shop told you that since the APR flash won't work, then no piggybacks will work either. Hmmm. Ok then.

No missunderstandings at all..

I trust my tuning shop, and if they say it does not work then I believe it in 100%. The only way to get around the problem right now is to put in an older non updated ECU manufactured before March / April.
Volkswagen is not stupid, they know what tuning tools that are out there and they will make it more difficult for us who want to tune our cars.

Did a little search on Piggyback and how they works, you will clearly understand that it is not only to bypass the ECU and then it works without problems.
"Newer piggy backs like the e-manage ultimate can control your ignition timing separately from your airflow readings, but there are still catches. You are able to change ignition timing maps but the e-manage simply changes the output signal the ecu sends to the coils.
The problem is the ignition timing numbers are not always consistent with the changes you make to the load sensor, whether its your map, or maf sensor. So you are guessing the timing numbers. The stock ecu also has multiple maps it can run for different conditions so you are not always consistent with the tune."

Read more: http://forums.superstreetonline.com...lone-ecu-vs-piggy-back-ecu-eng/#ixzz3enwgGGiv

Once again it is just a matter of time, it will be a solution. I'm quite sure that Apr, Neuspeed, Eurodyne etc. trying to solve the problem in this moment...

 

[toledospeed]

No missunderstandings at all..

I trust my tuning shop, and if they say it does not work then I believe it in 100%. The only way to get around the problem right now is to put in an older non updated ECU manufactured before March / April.
Volkswagen is not stupid, they know what tuning tools that are out there and they will make it more difficult for us who want to tune our cars.

Did a little search on Piggyback and how they works, you will clearly understand that it is not only to bypass the ECU and then it works without problems.
"Newer piggy backs like the e-manage ultimate can control your ignition timing separately from your airflow readings, but there are still catches. You are able to change ignition timing maps but the e-manage simply changes the output signal the ecu sends to the coils.
The problem is the ignition timing numbers are not always consistent with the changes you make to the load sensor, whether its your map, or maf sensor. So you are guessing the timing numbers. The stock ecu also has multiple maps it can run for different conditions so you are not always consistent with the tune."

Read more: http://forums.superstreetonline.com...lone-ecu-vs-piggy-back-ecu-eng/#ixzz3enwgGGiv

Once again it is just a matter of time, it will be a solution. I'm quite sure that Apr, Neuspeed, Eurodyne etc. trying to solve the problem in this moment...

Sorry, but I am still not buying what your tuning shop has told you. They are correct about APR needing to catch up to support your newer ECU because VW changed the ECU box code, however, I see no specific reason to why the Neuspeed PM and Burger JB1 won't work on your car. Unless VW has drastically changed the way the messages are sent and received on the CAN bus, and this just isn't likely. Instead of blindly trusting your tuning shop, please directly contact Burger Motorsports and Neuspeed and ask them if their piggyback modules will work on your new Golf R. Better yet, George Smooth the rep from Burger Motorsports, is hosting a few threads on the JB1/JB4 on this site. George also drives an R. Why don't you stop by one of those threads an ask the expert? If George tells me it won't work, then I will believe you

I am really not trying to be a jerk, it just bugs me if unconfirmed rumors are being spread without any evidence or official statements from the vendors involved. It is not fair to the vendors or the others reading these posts. Please contact these vendors directly and let us know what they tell you.

 

[TecklenburgVW]

In for updates.

 

[Baldilocks73]

Looks like it could be years or never.

 

[flameboy1696]

I am also in for updates , I am about to receive my R and i was planning to tune it /w APR... Have they made any progress?

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[NS2G8TR]

The Neuspeed PM isn't affected by the encryption changes made to the ECU. They have an April build PP GTI running the PM with no issues.

 

[TecklenburgVW]

I am also in for updates , I am about to receive my R and i was planning to tune it /w APR... Have they made any progress?

I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on a JB1 from Burger Motorsport and George Smooth. My Golf R's build date was 03/23/2015 so I'll let you know if I run into any issues.

The Neuspeed PM isn't affected by the encryption changes made to the ECU. They have an April build PP GTI running the PM with no issues.

Thank you for the update.

 

[George Smooth]

We have done a few updated S3's with no issues at all. The newest from what I know was a May build date (un-flashable the guy tried a few tuners). At the moment it seems the ECU can only be bench flashed.

 

[flameboy1696]

Hello George , what do you mean bench flashed?

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[nicoritschel]

My car is an H box code w/ a February build date; I've tried four different flashes without any success (APR, United Motorsport, Unitronic, & Eurodyne). I took the car in for a potential UM combo ECU + TCU tune this AM, and the car took the TCU tune, but rejected the ECU tune during the checksum phase. The strangest part is that Jeff @ UM was able to flash an ECU with the same box code & software revision number as mine. Long story short– some of the newer ECUs are having issues being flashed. I have to wonder if there's yet another differentiation between ECUs aside from strictly box code & software revision numbers. That would be my guess...

Hello George , what do you mean bench flashed?

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Bench flashing means cracking open the ECU, rather than flashing the software through the OBDII port.