Interesting Observation on Transmission

[angelsfanswa]

Hello All,
I've been vacationing in Switzerland and France the past week+ and being a car enthusiast I've been noting all the different brands and types. I've noticed the obvious things like more wagons vs. CUVs in Europe and a fair number of diesels. There have been a couple of things that have caught my attention. First thing is more cars with auto transmissions than I expected in newer cars. Also, I've seen more cars with gasoline and hybrid engines than I expected. You would think there would be more diesel. There is a high mix of diesels. On the VW front, I've seen slightly more TSIs than TDIs.

My 12 yr old son is into cars too, and he'll ask me about the technology when we talk about cars. I did buy a DSG GTI in March, and he asked me about why I got that instead of a manual like I've had before. I explained the performance gains and convenience of having two clutches shifting. The other day he and I were talking about the current and future corvettes and looking at photos.

I asked my son if he'd get a manual or an auto. He replied instantly he'd get a DSG/auto. I asked why. His answer was simple: "because it's faster." Now I realize he's never had driving experience to compare, but I wondered to myself... "if he has no frame of reference, will it ever cross his mind to consider a MT?"


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[Wrath And Tears]

In my opinion, manuals are a thing of the past. As in they are the perfect fit for older cars with out as many of the fancy pants computers modern cars have. I would never want a traditional auto, but the DSG is like a manual on speed. That being said its not perfect. You will always have more precise control over the transmission with a third pedal. I would never want anything other then a manual in a older car like mid 2005 and older... alright maybe even up to 2010.

P.S When I said I think manuals are a thing of the past, doesn't mean I think they should stop being made. It should always be an option. Flame on if you want, but I'm not hating on them, I can just see how they hold less attraction for the younger generation.

 

[Faceman]

If it wasn't for getting stuck in bumper to bumper, stop and go traffic on a regular basis, I would still consider a manual. Until them, the DSG is the best of both worlds.

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[beardedGTI]

I test drove the GTI in both transmissions and was pleasantly surprised at how well the DSG behaved compared to the numerous other autos and CVT's that I've driven. But at the end of the day I really couldn't justify spending an extra $1100 for something I was perfectly capable of (and enjoy) doing myself.

My mom said growing up "you can drive whatever car you want, but you're going to at least learn how to drive a manual first so you have that skill." That's definitely how I'll treat my kids.

To OP's point about being surprised by the amount of gas and hybrid drivetrains, I believe it has to do with emissions taxes in Europe. It's not quite like the "buy a diesel, enjoy the extra gas mileage for free" like it is over here.

 

[dub_guy]

While the DSG may be faster than the 6MT, I'm not a drag racing star when those seconds make a difference. I prefer the overall cost savings of the 6MT (cheaper to buy and cheaper to service).

And I you are a car person, you should learn manual. It may be becoming a thing of the past, but it means that you can drive any car, any place, any time.

 

[Wrath And Tears]

And i(f) you are a car person, you should learn manual. It may be becoming a thing of the past, but it means that you can drive any car, any place, any time.

This is so true, the first car I learned to drive, starting with just moving the wheel was my dads old ford f250 (or maybe it was a chevy, I was young and hes only owned chevy's since). Then when I was big enough I learned to operate the pedals as well. This was all off road and such. When it came time to learn to drive in the street, my dad bought a 99 Golf 2.0 with a broken timing belt that he and I fixed. It was a 5 speed and he taught me how to drive it and how to find the sweet spot of the clutch. After I had to part with the golf I started driving my girlfriends B4 Passat with the 1.8T and put about 100k on it.

After that I bought a A4B5 1.8T 5 speed, I then went with the MK7 2.0T DSG after test driving a MK5...6? (it was a 2010 or 2011 cant remember) DSG with a tune from a local shop, which may have simple been APR stage 1, as the shop is an APR dealer. It knocked my socks off compared to my A4B5 which was stage one. The DSG has its quirks but I'll never look back as far as new cars are concerned. That being said I plan to get and drag out some old school car and that will be manual no matter what.

Edit: not tuned on the MK7 and it still knocks my socks off. I plan to get a JB4, but need tint and new tires for my rims from the B5 that I am running on the MK7 (about 5lbs lighter per wheel). Then exhaust and maybe intake goodies (strictly for noise, the JB4 will be the main performance mod).

 

[PLF8593]

I asked my son if he'd get a manual or an auto. He replied instantly he'd get a DSG/auto. I asked why. His answer was simple: "because it's faster." Now I realize he's never had driving experience to compare, but I wondered to myself... "if he has no frame of reference, will it ever cross his mind to consider a MT?"


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He's young and into cars, i bet he'll want a MT. My first GTI, a MK6 @ age 19, was also my first manual. I then got a manual MK7. I now own a DSG MK7 because I thought I had gotten it (the desire to/love for driving a manual) out of my system, and was ready for the wondrous marvel of 21st century engineering that is the DSG.

Until I get a DSG tune, I will regret my decision. I'm lucky enough to still have my MT MK7 as well so I get to drive whichever one I feel like. I just love driving stick so much. It gets significantly better gas mileage, and that feeling of downshifting to 2nd into a turn is hard to beat.

The stock DSG programming really is a bummer, especially since my mom has owned a 2011 DSG CC since 2010 and it has always impressed me so much, in every way. Really disappoints me that my MK7 GTI DSG with 21K miles gets the same gas mileage as my mom's 2010 CC with 80K miles and has never been carbon cleaned. Also the CC's DSG programming is significantly better than the MK7's, even though the gearing is significantly taller. Sorry if this is OT, i guess im just venting my semi-regret from not staying MT.

 

[breaking badly]

I love things of the past, some at least.

 

[Chris43]

OP - did you mention to your son the greater purchase cost of a DSG and how they generally have an adverse effect on fuel economy and emissions.

He may have no frame of reference but does he have all the relevant information....

Each transmission has pros and cons.

 

[russiankid]

Manual transmissions are great when they are geared correctly. In my opinion, the MK7 manual is not geared well which can create an annoyance. The DSG on the other hand is much better in that aspect so it feels better.

 

[nate704]

OP - did you mention to your son the greater purchase cost of a DSG and how they generally have an adverse effect on fuel economy and emissions.

He may have no frame of reference but does he have all the relevant information....

Each transmission has pros and cons.

DSG will cost around $1200 more, but that's pretty much it. However, the clutch in manual tranny WILL needs to be replaced which will cost way more than $1200, and will have greater chance of being broken again by user errors again.
DSG and manual get the same combined MPG and manual gets ONE mpg higher than DSG on highway. Also, most new vehicles with auto will get better mileage these days.
I don't even know why you mentioned "emissions" since it's not even relevant.
I am not saying which one is better, but to make some points to correct you.

 

[russiankid]

DSG will cost around $1200 more, but that's pretty much it. However, the clutch in manual tranny WILL needs to be replaced which will cost way more than $1200, and will have greater chance of being broken again by user errors again.
DSG and manual get the same combined MPG and manual gets ONE mpg higher than DSG on highway. Also, most new vehicles with auto will get better mileage these days.
I don't even know why you mentioned "emissions" since it's not even relevant.
I am not saying which one is better, but to make some points to correct you.

If you can do the work yourself, a clutch can be done for under $1200.

 

[Chris43]

DSG will cost around $1200 more, but that's pretty much it. However, the clutch in manual tranny WILL needs to be replaced which will cost way more than $1200, and will have greater chance of being broken again by user errors again.
DSG and manual get the same combined MPG and manual gets ONE mpg higher than DSG on highway. Also, most new vehicles with auto will get better mileage these days.
I don't even know why you mentioned "emissions" since it's not even relevant.
I am not saying which one is better, but to make some points to correct you.

Correct me ?

1) In the world outside the US, in the UK in particular 99.7% of people learn to drive in a manual transmission so it WON'T need replacing as people are taught to drive it properly. The clutch facing may need replacing a few years down the line but this is standard wear and tear and it wont cost anything like $1200.
2) Again, in Europe Cars tax is calculated on CO2 emissions so it's very relevant.

I too am not stating which is better but just trying to balance the argument.

 

[dub_guy]

DSG will cost around $1200 more, but that's pretty much it.

The DSG needs service every 60,000km at quite a bit of cost (at least at Canadian dealer pricing)

 

[golfdave]

DSG will cost around $1200 more, but that's pretty much it. However, the clutch in manual tranny WILL needs to be replaced which will cost way more than $1200, and will have greater chance of being broken again by user errors again.

Obviously the whole DSG failures in VAG cars has passed you by....

DSG still has clutch packs & those go....& so does the expensive mechatronic box...& all that's when leaving the car standard...

The ONLY one that is proven is the old 6speed wet clutch..& even then they still need maintenance like a manual..

Oh & over here autos never took of in sales like over there...only when the DSG came out & proved a much better driver experience than the auto did the sales go up.

PS the DSG is not an AUTO it is still a Manual with clutch packs, but it has robotisted/computerised control over the shifts & it changes gears easy due to the twin clutches...