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Helix P&P Installation Issues

H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
Apologies in advance as I know I started a thread before regarding this and a few similar issues - but it's gone dead and I thought I'd post it one last time as I'm about to have to spend even more money! :(

I have a Discover Pro (Retrofitted) and a Helix P&P System. Unfortunately the Discover Pro does not seem to wake the DSP in the Helix. To solve it I have to disconnect and reconnect the DSP every time the radio restarts.

I borrowed another Discover Pro unit and it had exactly the same problem. However when I connect my original Composition Media it wakes just fine?!

The DP unit is coded as similar to the Composition Media as far as I can see.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
harryw999 said:
Apologies in advance as I know I started a thread before regarding this and a few similar issues - but it's gone dead and I thought I'd post it one last time as I'm about to have to spend even more money! :(

I have a Discover Pro (Retrofitted) and a Helix P&P System. Unfortunately the Discover Pro does not seem to wake the DSP in the Helix. To solve it I have to disconnect and reconnect the DSP every time the radio restarts.

I borrowed another Discover Pro unit and it had exactly the same problem. However when I connect my original Composition Media it wakes just fine?!

The DP unit is coded as similar to the Composition Media as far as I can see.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with this issue, or swapping the red and brown wire that mickR posted, but unless it's a coding issue for speaker outputs I don't believe the power that's sent to the DSP is more than just switched (key on) power and ground. That's Yellow (+) and black (-) to red (+) and brown (-). I want to say that the DSP on trigger is speaker level, not because of power. The fact that you can disconnect and reconnect to trigger it on is definitely odd, but I would still trace this back to coding or your retrofit.

P.S. Here's the pin out
 
H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
flipflp said:
I'm not familiar with this issue, or swapping the red and brown wire that mickR posted, but unless it's a coding issue for speaker outputs I don't believe the power that's sent to the DSP is more than just switched (key on) power and ground. That's Yellow (+) and black (-) to red (+) and brown (-). I want to say that the DSP on trigger is speaker level, not because of power. The fact that you can disconnect and reconnect to trigger it on is definitely odd, but I would still trace this back to coding or your retrofit.

P.S. Here's the pin out
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply, Yes I'm hoping it's just coding, just not sure what else I can change, the DP doesn't seem to have much in terms of the actual audio output that I can change.
I've compared that Pinout diagram to the composition media and it appears to be identical, so I should be able to rule out the installation of the harness at this stage.
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
harryw999 said:
Thanks for the reply, Yes I'm hoping it's just coding, just not sure what else I can change, the DP doesn't seem to have much in terms of the actual audio output that I can change.
I've compared that Pinout diagram to the composition media and it appears to be identical, so I should be able to rule out the installation of the harness at this stage.
Click to expand...

Right, I'm also not familiar with the coding required for the swap you did, but for example if a cue or trigger from a factory Discover media exists and is used as the turn on for the helix, but a Discover Pro unit would have had a Fender sub (correct me if I'm wrong) so that trigger doesn't exist in that units programming. The disconnect and reconnect may cause a "pop" or resistance change that has the same effect, but you may have issues recreating that with a Discover Pro unit.

Maybe not a completely baseless theory, but I'm basing this on the idea that the Helix was only designed to be used on base Discover Media units, and not to be used with Fender systems that use a separate amp and dedicated subwoofer.
 
Last edited:
H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
flipflp said:
Right, I'm also not familiar with the coding required for the swap you did, but for example if a cue or trigger from a factory Discover media exists and is used as the turn on for the helix, but a Discover Pro unit would have had a Fender sub (correct me if I'm wrong) so that trigger doesn't exist in that units programming. The disconnect and reconnect may cause a "pop" or resistance change that has the same effect, but you may have issues recreating that with a Discover Pro unit.

Maybe not a completely baseless theory, but I'm basing this on the idea that the Helix was only designed to be used on base Discover Media units, and not to be used with Fender systems that use a separate amp and dedicated subwoofer.
Click to expand...

The Discover Pro is coded for the factory 4 channel 8 speaker system and using the internal system amplifier. :( It's set up pretty much identically to my old composition media, I'm going to try and purchase a new DSP now to see if that fixes it!
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
harryw999 said:
The Discover Pro is coded for the factory 4 channel 8 speaker system and using the internal system amplifier. :( It's set up pretty much identically to my old composition media, I'm going to try and purchase a new DSP now to see if that fixes it!
Click to expand...

Gotcha, for your sake I hope it is just the DSP and not something hardware or something unchangeable with a recoded Discover Pro. Please post back with your findings! If there is a compatibility issue or something of that nature I'll add it to the Helix Info post.
 
H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
flipflp said:
Gotcha, for your sake I hope it is just the DSP and not something hardware or something unchangeable with a recoded Discover Pro. Please post back with your findings! If there is a compatibility issue or something of that nature I'll add it to the Helix Info post.
Click to expand...

I hope so, I also have to try and repair the harness now as 4 of the wires have come out of the Molex connector (DSP end) because I've taken it out too many times and they won't clip back in. :mad: Hopefully I'll find a position to tape them in.

In my previous thread a few other people also reported the same problem (Interestingly both Discover Pro units) and both of them reported that changing the DSP fixed the issue.
Here's a link to that thread:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37974

The DSP I'm going to try (and probably going to have to set up a gofundme page for :p) is this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/62DSP-5-6C...rd_wg=Vw1Dy&psc=1&refRID=0B8KTZJ8XTSKXVNBMC12

There's cheaper alternatives with the same connectors but there really isn't much in the price and this is the one the others have tried. It's irritating that I'm going to have to pay essentially twice as much for the same sub-woofer but hey, at least it looks more fun and I can probably sell it separately if I hang on to the original DSP.

Hopefully this will be the last of the problems with my Discover Pro Retrofit - I'll then make a new thread of the whole retrofit and the problems I faced as there's not much posted regarding this!

I'll be sure to report back when I've tested it as it indicates some kind of compatibility issue as I know the DSP I already have is functional with my Composition Media.
 
H

harryw999

New member
Location
Preston
flipflp said:
Gotcha, for your sake I hope it is just the DSP and not something hardware or something unchangeable with a recoded Discover Pro. Please post back with your findings! If there is a compatibility issue or something of that nature I'll add it to the Helix Info post.
Click to expand...

So my new DSP came today - worked flawlessly! Seems to be a compatibility issue with some DSP/Discover Pro unit's. Discover Pro detects a short to ground on all 4 channels and I suspect this is why the Helix doesn't wake as some kind of protection will probably kick in to stop any sound being output from the DP. :confused:

Helix PP 62DSP is an expensive :)() fix but works flawlessly, plus it has a lot more on the customization side of things. and at least you don't need to borrow a programming dongle! It also outputs more power so you'd benefit even more from upgrading your standard speakers.

I now have a P&P Helix DSP Paperweight but my Discover Pro retrofit is now complete! Will do a full write up soon on how to enable driving modes as there's nothing online I've found regarding this. :D
 
M

MortenLie

New member
Location
Norway
Hey, i have the same problem with my (stock) discover pro. My car does not have factory upgraded speakers, f ex Dynaudio or Fender, just stock. Norwegian car, 2013 model.

Does this come with stock amplifier??
Not to my knowledge?
If so, do you know where it is located?

I've been told by vw dealer they will have a support appointment on the matter.
.i really dont want to pay double the price for the upgrade! :O
Also inquired Audiotech Fisher inquiring about a solution/ if they would loan me the amp ur referring to.

Just thought u should know, u are not alone!

Best regards,
Morten Lie
 
B

Blake

New member
Location
Camas, WA (PNW)
MortenLie said:
Hey, i have the same problem with my (stock) discover pro. My car does not have factory upgraded speakers, f ex Dynaudio or Fender, just stock. Norwegian car, 2013 model.

Does this come with stock amplifier??
Not to my knowledge?
If so, do you know where it is located?

I've been told by vw dealer they will have a support appointment on the matter.
.i really dont want to pay double the price for the upgrade! :O
Also inquired Audiotech Fisher inquiring about a solution/ if they would loan me the amp ur referring to.

Just thought u should know, u are not alone!

Best regards,
Morten Lie
Click to expand...
Any updates to your problem? I have the same exact issue with my Rev B unit. Very frustrating.

Sent you a PM

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
D

Daveleach

New member
Location
UK
Has anyone found a resolve to this problem?
I have mib1 and my helix shows a fault to all speakers but then works with a disconnect and a reconnect
 
C

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
@Smith19687 , have you tried disconnecting/reconnecting the sub output connector? Also look at the pins. I have seen them get pushed back which would make for a bad connection. It's also possible for that connector to be "in" but not fully seated, although this should only cause a problem if the pins have pushed back as well.

To the original post... I know some people solved it with a new DSP. But the issue can be resolved a bit cheaper with a time delay relay that switches ground to the Helix ~20 seconds after the Discover Pro unit powers up. Based on the "all channels shorted to ground fault" I chased grounding issues, thinking it was something with my aftermarket loc/amp/sub (which gets sub input and remote turn on from the Helix). In the end, I suspected that the Helix does not have great isolation between speaker output and ground, internally. It could also be that some MIB units are just really sensitive. New DSP's solving the issue points back to the Helix but it's hard to find the Helix being sold by itself.

For background... I installed the Helix when I had MIB I (non-nav), it worked fine. I then did MIB II (non-nav), it worked fine. I then did MIB II (nav, Discover Media), it worked fine. When I installed MIB 2.5 (Discover Pro)... all channels shorted to ground, which could be fixed with a disconnect/reconnect of the Helix.
 
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