I have a 12 inch sub that's a plug and play replacement for the helix. It's in a sealed box. It thumps pretty well. When I crank up the volume past, say 70%, the sub starts to fade as the amp can't give it enough juice. Are there any plug and play amp upgrades out there?
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Are there any plug and play amp upgrades?
- Thread starter Daks
- Start date
Cuzoe
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Los Angeles
Define plug and play 
.
.I take old unit out, put new unit in and it fits perfectky, but just hits harder.Define plug and play
Are you sure that this is an amp issue and not DSP bass roll off?
Go on...
Disclaimer that I have really only dabbled in this stuff.
Factory headunits tend to be programmed to reduce the level of bass in their output mix as volume increases. Tossing in a higher wattage amp won't change that.
There are devices out there which can counteract the headunit's roll off behavior, in the signal path they sit between the HU and the amp. There *might* be amplifiers out there which have that functionality built in but I don't know.
Cuzoe
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Los Angeles
That is correct, bass does roll off some at "really" high volumes although it wasn't significant (according to to the RTA function of my DSP). Also worth noting that I've never had my volume even at 50% so "really" high is relative. You do have to keep in mind that, as @Saabingti alluded to, the headset output (with it's vehicle based tuning, into the weeds if you're interested) is not "added" to by the Helix. Rather the Helix just re-EQs the existing output.
You could get something like the AudioControl LC2i which has the Accubass feature. I won't try to explain how Accubass works but it can counteract some of that rolloff.
I ran the LC2i when I was running the Helix. I had the Helix amp output feeding the LC2i which then fed my own amp/sub. Significant difference with the LC2i. I did have the Helix sub output feed my own amp at first. And though my amp and sub were way more capable than the Helix sub the output was disappointing. That being a combination of greatly attenuated low frequencies (at all volumes) the Helix sub just can't handle and some roll off at higher volumes (of frequencies the Helix sub can handle, to a point).
You could get something like the AudioControl LC2i which has the Accubass feature. I won't try to explain how Accubass works but it can counteract some of that rolloff.
I ran the LC2i when I was running the Helix. I had the Helix amp output feeding the LC2i which then fed my own amp/sub. Significant difference with the LC2i. I did have the Helix sub output feed my own amp at first. And though my amp and sub were way more capable than the Helix sub the output was disappointing. That being a combination of greatly attenuated low frequencies (at all volumes) the Helix sub just can't handle and some roll off at higher volumes (of frequencies the Helix sub can handle, to a point).
There are at least 2 p&p upgrades.
Match PP
Audison Prima
I have the later and I found it great bang for buck. "Easy" to install. You still have to get the cables positioned but the connectors fit the stock harness. No cutting and soldering.
They have some options with 4-9 channels. I have the 5.9 with 4 amps for the stock loudspeakers + a sub.
For me the big difference wasn't the power but DSP with parametric equalizer for all channels separately and the delays to the speakers. As I changed the front loudspeakers I needed some adjustment.
Sounds quality improvement was extreme.
Match PP
Audison Prima
I have the later and I found it great bang for buck. "Easy" to install. You still have to get the cables positioned but the connectors fit the stock harness. No cutting and soldering.
They have some options with 4-9 channels. I have the 5.9 with 4 amps for the stock loudspeakers + a sub.
For me the big difference wasn't the power but DSP with parametric equalizer for all channels separately and the delays to the speakers. As I changed the front loudspeakers I needed some adjustment.
Sounds quality improvement was extreme.
boston_chris
New member
- Location
- Boston
- Car(s)
- 2018 GTI
I'm thinking of buying something like the AudioControl LC-5.1300 to replace the Helix. Seems like an elegant way to get LC2i, amp, DSP functionality all in one. I'd even just use the existing Helix harness and power, just add my own adapter to the end.
My reason for doing this is that the car audio just sounds super unbalanced to my ears, even after upgrading all speakers except the Helix sub. I tested it with some iphone calibration apps and it kinda confirmed what I thought - the vocal frequencies are just super overbearing atm. Additionally I'd probably just boost the low-middle range since I can't hear it through road noise. Lastly I'd try to restore the under ~60hz range which is seemingly just filtered out somewhere currently.
Has anyone else done this, and was it a noticeable upgrade?
My reason for doing this is that the car audio just sounds super unbalanced to my ears, even after upgrading all speakers except the Helix sub. I tested it with some iphone calibration apps and it kinda confirmed what I thought - the vocal frequencies are just super overbearing atm. Additionally I'd probably just boost the low-middle range since I can't hear it through road noise. Lastly I'd try to restore the under ~60hz range which is seemingly just filtered out somewhere currently.
Has anyone else done this, and was it a noticeable upgrade?
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Did you program your Helix with the dongle? It makes a big difference from what I've heard.
You need much bigger power and ground wire for that Audiocontrol amp than what the Helix harness provides. 1/0 gauge wire and an appropriate sized inline fuse is what's recommended.
You need much bigger power and ground wire for that Audiocontrol amp than what the Helix harness provides. 1/0 gauge wire and an appropriate sized inline fuse is what's recommended.
Cuzoe
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Los Angeles
@boston_chris You'll want a D-5.1300 to get DSP functionality. I run a D-4.800 which replaced my Helix. My DSP tuning skills split the difference between one and mediocre... but there was an improvement in sound. I did some very basic EQ tuning, and time alignment. I was also running aftermarket speakers so it's possible the improvement was mostly due to driving them with more power.
I was not using the Helix sub though. I had the Helix sub output feeding an LC2i which fed my own amp/sub. The D-4.800 replaced the Helix and LC2i... so it's driving my speakers and the sub out goes to my other amp/sub.
Edit: And yes, you will need to run power wire.
I was not using the Helix sub though. I had the Helix sub output feeding an LC2i which fed my own amp/sub. The D-4.800 replaced the Helix and LC2i... so it's driving my speakers and the sub out goes to my other amp/sub.
Edit: And yes, you will need to run power wire.
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boston_chris
New member
- Location
- Boston
- Car(s)
- 2018 GTI
Thanks for the tips, and yeah it makes sense that I'd need a power cable. I feel the Helix system does sound power-limited above low volumes.
Do you think the D-5 would be effective for powering the Helix sub, or do I need to buy another sub for this? It's a weird subwoofer, I wonder if there's some custom audio processing in the Helix for it.
Oh and per your question - I did program the head unit for the Helix. It improved the soundstage but not really the EQ. I can't really blame it though as I went on to get aftermarket speakers
Do you think the D-5 would be effective for powering the Helix sub, or do I need to buy another sub for this? It's a weird subwoofer, I wonder if there's some custom audio processing in the Helix for it.
Oh and per your question - I did program the head unit for the Helix. It improved the soundstage but not really the EQ. I can't really blame it though as I went on to get aftermarket speakers
The Helix is only designed to work with the stock speakers and Helix sub. So using aftermarket speakers with the Helix setup is not going to sound right.
Audiocontrol makes great amps, and you'll have more than enough power if you retain the Helix sub. However, 6.5" subs just don't play very low. If you really want more impact in the 50hz and lower range you should get a 10 or 12 inch sub.
Audiocontrol makes great amps, and you'll have more than enough power if you retain the Helix sub. However, 6.5" subs just don't play very low. If you really want more impact in the 50hz and lower range you should get a 10 or 12 inch sub.
Cuzoe
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Los Angeles
The Helix does 4 x 35W at 4 Ohm for the main speakers and 160W at 2 Ohm for the sub output.
The Helix sub box, contains two 6" subs, dual 2ohm voice coils (a few ways they could have wired this, but the end result would present a 2ohm load to the Helix).
I don't listen at high volumes but it's a safe assumption you would be power limited. The output from the stock radio does not clip, even at max volume. But the stock radio does have EQ tables in the car specific dataset so it accounts for the limits of factory speakers. Quite possibly the dip you noted at 60Hz is by design. This link is way into the weeds, but talks about factory dataset EQ... https://mqb-blog.com/en/2022/02/21/sound-dataset/
I didn't check the Helix output so don't know if it clipped at high/max volume. But it's worth keeping in mind the Helix would not have completely "undone" whatever compensation was made in the factory EQ tables of the MIB since the stock speaker (relative lack of) ability would still be a limiting factor.
The AudioControl D series has built in RTA and it will flatten all input, at which point you can then EQ as you see fit. The L series does not have this. You will also lose time alignment with the L series.
The Helix sub box, contains two 6" subs, dual 2ohm voice coils (a few ways they could have wired this, but the end result would present a 2ohm load to the Helix).
I don't listen at high volumes but it's a safe assumption you would be power limited. The output from the stock radio does not clip, even at max volume. But the stock radio does have EQ tables in the car specific dataset so it accounts for the limits of factory speakers. Quite possibly the dip you noted at 60Hz is by design. This link is way into the weeds, but talks about factory dataset EQ... https://mqb-blog.com/en/2022/02/21/sound-dataset/
I didn't check the Helix output so don't know if it clipped at high/max volume. But it's worth keeping in mind the Helix would not have completely "undone" whatever compensation was made in the factory EQ tables of the MIB since the stock speaker (relative lack of) ability would still be a limiting factor.
The AudioControl D series has built in RTA and it will flatten all input, at which point you can then EQ as you see fit. The L series does not have this. You will also lose time alignment with the L series.