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Airflow at higher speeds

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I've been thinking a lot about airflow recently, in regard to club rules where all windows must remain open (except sunroof). I noticed that on track at any speed beyond 70 MPH there is a lot of cabin wind noise, as well as the sound of trapped air. When I've driven coupes and convertibles the same noises aren't nearly as bad. I decided to pop the sunroof so that it's in the "vent" position. I noticed pretty much immediately that the sounds I had noticed previously greatly diminished and my top speed down the straight was marginally higher for an entire session that i had it open (it's possible this might just be me).

This got me thinking about venting. It makes sense that a hatchback is essentially a parachute with all the windows open, so I thought putting some venting towards the rear quarter windows would be helpful. My thought was that a reverse mounted NACA duct might be able to suck out the air with low pressure. I did a bit of googling and stumbled upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtEsdUzlIEk.

So it seems that it would indeed help.

This got me thinking about evacuating underhood air, as well as delivering more air across the engine and intake. My thought was that two NACA ducts directing air in at the front of the hood, and two at the rear of the hood, mounted reverse would help combat heat and evacuate some of the hot air that passes over the radiator, intercooler, condenser sandwich.

Has anyone else thought about this, or tried it out?
 

TXBDan1

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
MA
Sure, but is it really worth hacking up a perfectly nice car for extremely minimal gains? Are you competing? Like you said, having the windows down is problem enough. Aero cars don't run with their windows down.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I have for my Mini. After seeing the air under the hood making it flex down the back straight.

All the air coming in the front grill needs somewhere to evacuate.
 

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donefor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
usa
I've thought about this, having come from a Mk6 with sunroof into a Mk7 without. Yes, at high speeds with both windows down, there are times when the cabin goes into organ-pipe oscillation and it's annoying - the situation is alleviated by cracking a sunroof, or something else - the hatch, for instance. I don't see any straightforward way of venting the interior for the sake of avoiding these not-so-good vibrations that wouldn't be frowned upon at the track, but hell, i'm almost used to it now :p When i first got the car though, god damn it was annoying.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Sure, but is it really worth hacking up a perfectly nice car for extremely minimal gains? Are you competing? Like you said, having the windows down is problem enough. Aero cars don't run with their windows down.

Not really hacking it up. I was planning on sourcing a cheap hood, from either a wrecked car or one of those carbon fiber ones. It's just a hood after all. Second most beaten up part of a car, anyway. And yes I do compete in some events. Trying to get the car sorted this year and just go full on time trials next year. My ultimate goal is to be running TT and doing some instruction, and have the hobby pay part of itself down that way.

I have for my Mini. After seeing the air under the hood making it flex down the back straight.

All the air coming in the front grill needs somewhere to evacuate.

I haven't seen the gti hood flex a ton, but I have seen the cowl peel back slightly at speed. You think it's trying to vent there?

Just leave the hatch open... ;)

I thought Brick was joking, but is this actually a thing?

I open my rear windows a bit, and the "cavitation" type noises and turbulence greatly diminishes. Not an option for the 2 door guys, of course.

I got stopped my last event for windows half open. All open or all closed for the rears they said. No option for partial open. I get why the front has to be open... Driver extraction rules. The sunroof vent was my only partial open option.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City

Yeah, it is. Even more applicable is that company is willing to do some custom fabing!

Edit, I did a bit more reading on the ruling. As it turns out, NACA ducts can only be used for driver cooling or venting on the hood (but you take a modification factor cut for it in hp/wt calculations). The holes in that strafe design also wouldn't be allowed in a TT4 car. However, Their splitter looks interesting, and they're willing to fab stuff, so maybe I can get them to fab a wing that uses some integrated mounting points.

Here are the rulings for anyone interested:
BTM Aero (adds 0.4 to the to wt/hp ratio):

6.3 ST4 and ST3 Production Vehicle “BTM Aero” Modification Factor
ST4 and ST3 Production vehicles that maintain the unmodified Base Trim Model (BTM)
body lines, do not have non-BTM aerodynamic aides or modifications, and do not have
a rear wing or rear spoiler or rear diffuser may assess the Modification Factor for “BTM
Aero” in calculating the “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio”. Under this specific rule, an
aerodynamic aide is considered non-BTM if it did not come configured on the base trim
model (BTM) of the vehicle from the manufacturing factory. Except for those vehiclespecific higher level trim models (non-BTM) listed in Appendix B, there is no updating or
backdating across trim models or the addition of dealer installed options permitted.
The following are permitted allowances/modifications for vehicles taking the
Modification Factor assessment for “BTM Aero”:
1) Flat undertray/belly pan forward of the centerline of the front axle, extending
no lower than the bottom of the front fascia..
2) Removal of a convertible soft top/frame and/or adding a hardtop to a
convertible provided that the hardtop uses a sealed rear window and is either
OEM, an OEM option, or the same shape and size of an OEM/OEM option
top.
3) Lexan front, rear, and rear side windows without uncovered holes.
4) Front wing window/frame removal and/or replacement with Lexan.
5) Hood replacement/modification for venting and/or weight reduction (“aero”
hood pins are permitted).
6) Removal/cutting/drilling of the fascia for engine cooling, air intake, brake
ducting, and transponder mounting purposes.
7) Removal of rain gutters/drip edges, windshield wipers, and mirrors.
NASA Super Touring (ST1-4 & SU) Rules 2019 v13.2 Page 11 of 27
8) Rolled or flared fenders (includes add-on flares--only to the extent necessary
to cover the tire as viewed from above—not viewed from the front or rear)
9) NACA ducts, air ducts, or air hoses placed in a side window frame solely for
the purpose of driver cooling.
10) Headlamp, headlight covers, and fog lights may all be removed. The holes
may be left open, used for brake ducts or engine air intake, or must be
covered with material that replicates the shape of the BTM light/cover, leaving
the shape of the BTM fascia intact.

TT4 specific Aero rules beyond BTM (assessed independently):

6.4.2 ST4 Aerodynamic Modification Restrictions and Limitations
If not using the BTM Aero Modification Factor, aerodynamic parts/devices/aides
shall be limited in ST4 to the following:
1) All of the items listed above in section 6.3 “BTM Aero” Modification Factor.
2) Vertical front air dam (5º tolerance) that follows or extends beneath the
outermost edge of the front and side bodywork/fascia.
3) Single flat, horizontal front splitter that protrudes no greater than 4” from where
it intersects with the fascia or air dam. Along the entire splitter, there must be
at least 1” of fascia or air dam material above/superior to where the splitter
intersects the fascia/air dam, including at any air intake region.
4) Single rear wing or spoiler that does not exceed a height of 8” above the roof
line, or width greater than the vehicle’s body width, or end plates greater than
12” in length or height, or 12” protrusion from the rear of the vehicle. Body
width does not include flared fenders, mirrors, splitter, door handles.
5) Modified BTM, non-Base Trim Model (non-BTM), or replaced front fascia
(unless specifically approved in Appendix B:
i) May have nothing attached to it other than specifically allowed items
(above).
ii) May not have canards/winglets molded into it.
NASA Super Touring (ST1-4 & SU) Rules 2019 v13.2 Page 12 of 27
iii) Any item that is molded into the fascia during the original manufacturing
process that functions as an airfoil, deflector, dive plane, or vortex
generator and extends 2" or more past the outline of the immediate
surrounding fascia is prohibited. To inspect: a plumb line run across the
entire surface of the fascia and bumper shall not have any such item that
extends 2” past the line when viewed from above.
6) Cutting/removal of the rear bumper cover/fascia where it does not cover the
rear frame/bumper cross beam.
7) Complete removal of both the windshield and windshield frame is permitted on
OEM convertible top vehicles, but will be assessed the Modification Factor
listed in section 6.5. The OEM cowl may be replaced with a flat cover
between the hood and the dash, but no air deflectors may be added, and the
entire cockpit must remain uncovered.
8) Convertibles may use aftermarket hardtops that are not compliant with 6.3.2
above, but they will be assessed with the Modification Factor for
roofline/shape, may not extend rearward of the front edge of the OEM rear
decklid, and the OEM windshield frame location must be preserved.
 
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victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
so the other day, i went on track, and i played around with various window openings to see if i could get some better airflow. It seems with both fronts full open, If i popped the sunroof and cracked the rear windows 1" (not more, not less), I could notice far less air getting trapped, and I made it down the main straight at 127mph easily. Previously my best was 127mph on a perfect day with a perfect corner exit. If this day had the same conditions, I'm sure I could have eeked out another 5mph.

Problem now, is that some rules don't allow rear windows partially open :/.
 
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