► Official APEX VW SM-10 Flow Formed Wheel Thread

[APEXWheels]

I suspect I know the answer to this, but 17x9 VS-5RS and the 034 375x34 rotors with stock Mk8 two piston floaters, that’s a no, right? Now that GiroDisc lists a stock 357x34 option, I’m likely good without any 034 parts.

Correct, there is no way a 375mm rotor will clear under a 17" barrel. From my experience, the 357mm rotor size is pretty much the largest spec you can fit under 17"s. Anything larger will need an 18" wheel to clear.

-Geirsen

 

[Josiah_Farrow]

Been fixing to get SM-10s since I bought my car (mk 7.5) two years ago and finally going to take the plunge this spring. I've decided on the 17x8.5s (not the color yet) but, still trying to figure out what tire to go with.
From up north so this will be a summer-only wheel/tire combo. I'll likely do 2-3 track days but, the tires will be dailys as well. Had a buddy suggest the Ventus RS4s as he's had really good experience with them on his Cayman. My two main concerns are tire wear and wet weather performance. I've done enough research to see differing options with regards to tire-wear and dailying 200 TW tires. Also, not super keen on having tires that will be sketchy to drive on a downpour. The obvious alternative is a 300-340 TW set like P4S/PS5/Eagle F1.

Anyway, figured I'd ask here as going through the 100+ pages seems like a lot of you have good experience on different compounds.

 

[tigeo]

Been fixing to get SM-10s since I bought my car (mk 7.5) two years ago and finally going to take the plunge this spring. I've decided on the 17x8.5s (not the color yet) but, still trying to figure out what tire to go with.
From up north so this will be a summer-only wheel/tire combo. I'll likely do 2-3 track days but, the tires will be dailys as well. Had a buddy suggest the Ventus RS4s as he's had really good experience with them on his Cayman. My two main concerns are tire wear and wet weather performance. I've done enough research to see differing options with regards to tire-wear and dailying 200 TW tires. Also, not super keen on having tires that will be sketchy to drive on a downpour. The obvious alternative is a 300-340 TW set like P4S/PS5/Eagle F1.

Anyway, figured I'd ask here as going through the 100+ pages seems like a lot of you have good experience on different compounds.

Why not 17x9 with some 245/40s?

 

[Josiah_Farrow]

Why not 17x9 with some 245/40s?

Could definitely go that route and was considering it. I've leaned towards the 17x8.5s simply because thats what is recommended by Apex as an OEM+ and the 17x9s seemed more geared towards those consistently at HPDEs. As much as id love to be at the track most weekends, its not currently in the budget. So realistically i'm only going to be doing 2-3 this year.
The second reason is that extra 5 is attractive with the pothole situation here in canada still being bad even in the summer.
That being said, the difference in cost between the 8.5 and 9s is negligible. If you think the difference between 40 and 45 isnt going to change much and there are advantages to having the 17x9 both for performance and tire choice I'd be interested in hearing what those advantages are.

 

[scrllock]

Could definitely go that route and was considering it. I've leaned towards the 17x8.5s simply because thats what is recommended by Apex as an OEM+ and the 17x9s seemed more geared towards those consistently at HPDEs. As much as id love to be at the track most weekends, its not currently in the budget. So realistically i'm only going to be doing 2-3 this year.
The second reason is that extra 5 is attractive with the pothole situation here in canada still being bad even in the summer.
That being said, the difference in cost between the 8.5 and 9s is negligible. If you think the difference between 40 and 45 isnt going to change much and there are advantages to having the 17x9 both for performance and tire choice I'd be interested in hearing what those advantages are.

wider wheel is almost always better, even with the same tire.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/wheel-width-is-wider-always-better/

40 vs 45 profile, 40 profile will always be easier to fit, will accelerate faster, weigh less. only upside to 45 is road comfort and if you need it, total heat capacity.
if you never plan on going skinnier than a 235, I'd go straight to a 9" wheel. you have less concern about brake upgrades later on, better tire support.

 

[tigeo]

Could definitely go that route and was considering it. I've leaned towards the 17x8.5s simply because thats what is recommended by Apex as an OEM+ and the 17x9s seemed more geared towards those consistently at HPDEs. As much as id love to be at the track most weekends, its not currently in the budget. So realistically i'm only going to be doing 2-3 this year.
The second reason is that extra 5 is attractive with the pothole situation here in canada still being bad even in the summer.
That being said, the difference in cost between the 8.5 and 9s is negligible. If you think the difference between 40 and 45 isnt going to change much and there are advantages to having the 17x9 both for performance and tire choice I'd be interested in hearing what those advantages are.

Nothing wrong BTW with 8.5s. The 9 is nice b/c a 245 fits perfectly with slight stretch which is optimal. The 8.5s with 235 is also great. I run 235/40s on my 18x8.5s and 245/40 on my 17x9.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Also a ps4s with a 40 sidewall will be more comfy than a 200tw in a 45 sidewall. The 200tw tires usually have uber stiff sidewalls for more responsive feel, but that comes with less comfort and more noise. The Michelin ps tires are really a goldilocks tire and with only 2-3 events (i think you mean weekends so 4-6 days?) they'll be fine for a few years since you have a winter set.

I second a wider wheel. Gives better steering feel when the tire has some stretch to it. 245 on a 9" is more likely to experience curb rash, though. 8.5" and 245 is a good fit, or 255 on a 9".

 

[tigeo]

Also a ps4s with a 40 sidewall will be more comfy than a 200tw in a 45 sidewall. The 200tw tires usually have uber stiff sidewalls for more responsive feel, but that comes with less comfort and more noise. The Michelin ps tires are really a goldilocks tire and with only 2-3 events (i think you mean weekends so 4-6 days?) they'll be fine for a few years since you have a winter set.

I second a wider wheel. Gives better steering feel when the tire has some stretch to it. 245 on a 9" is more likely to experience curb rash, though. 8.5" and 245 is a good fit, or 255 on a 9".

Agreed; no real reason to daily 200s, they are stiff and loud. PS4S on track are fine if you accept they will get greasy if you push them for too long. 255 on a 9 is a bit much to me but will vary tire to tire; my Nexen 245s are wider than my Accelera 255s were! Just have to look at the measurements and try to be square to slightly stretched...my opinion.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Agreed; no real reason to daily 200s, they are stiff and loud. PS4S on track are fine if you accept they will get greasy if you push them for too long. 255 on a 9 is a bit much to me but will vary tire to tire; my Nexen 245s are wider than my Accelera 255s were! Just have to look at the measurements and try to be square to slightly stretched...my opinion.

Agreed! One tire's 265 is another tire's 245. The more "street friendly" a tire is, usually the narrower it is respective to mm width spec.

A bit narrower is also better in the wet. You only need super wide if you're running out of heat tolerance really. Or for looks

On the other car i run a 295/30/19 Hoosier r7 on a 19x10 and a 315/30 on a 10.5. "They" told me it couldn't be done, but "they" were wrong .

I find I like the gearing of a 245/40 a bit better on the gti dsg. Comes out of corners with a bit more gusto

 

[Josiah_Farrow]

Agreed; no real reason to daily 200s, they are stiff and loud. PS4S on track are fine if you accept they will get greasy if you push them for too long. 255 on a 9 is a bit much to me but will vary tire to tire; my Nexen 245s are wider than my Accelera 255s were! Just have to look at the measurements and try to be square to slightly stretched...my opinion.

I appreciate this comment.

I ran a set of P4S on my previous car and agree they are a fantastic tire. Only issue is their price has increased dramatically in Canada over the last couple years making it a tough purchase to justify (would be almost double than a set of RS4s). There are a couple alternatives to the PS4 in that UHP category but most suffer from the same Canadian pricing problem as the P4S (although not to the same extent).
The one outlier seems to be the Indy 500 but, there is not a ton of easily available info out there and I'm hesitant on those for that reason. Also, the likelihood of them being near the performance of the P4S is very low. If they were, I feel i'd of heard more about them.

The ride quality of a 200 is not a huge concern for me as the stock wheels im getting rid of are 19s and the ride-quality is atrocious on those. The road noise is a different story the wife may get annoyed pretty quick. We are the "almost always listening to music when driving type" but, if its really bad it may not be worth the bump in "fun" when I get to drive the car fast.

As for the width, you guys have sold me on the 19s. So, thanks for the info and advice!

 

[DarkArrow]

Been fixing to get SM-10s since I bought my car (mk 7.5) two years ago and finally going to take the plunge this spring. I've decided on the 17x8.5s (not the color yet) but, still trying to figure out what tire to go with.
From up north so this will be a summer-only wheel/tire combo. I'll likely do 2-3 track days but, the tires will be dailys as well. Had a buddy suggest the Ventus RS4s as he's had really good experience with them on his Cayman. My two main concerns are tire wear and wet weather performance. I've done enough research to see differing options with regards to tire-wear and dailying 200 TW tires. Also, not super keen on having tires that will be sketchy to drive on a downpour. The obvious alternative is a 300-340 TW set like P4S/PS5/Eagle F1.

Anyway, figured I'd ask here as going through the 100+ pages seems like a lot of you have good experience on different compounds.

RS4s are probably one of the better wearing but slower 200TW tires. They aren't all that loud either, so it is doable as a daily. Keep in mind, tires will shift on the wheels at track days and you'll probably have at least one unbalanced wheel after each track day.
I haven't driven RS4s in pouring rain, but I did do a wet track day and they held up okay. Nothing unmanageable or sketchy.
I've seen people do track days in PSAS4s, but they were novices, so they didn't shred up the tires all that badly. Probably the one thing you could do is get the PS4S and just make sure to drive enough after a track day to minimize track "evidence" and use the mileage warranty to get cheaper replacements.

As for ride comfort, if you're coming from the stock 19s, anything on a 17 will feel like a dream. Who the hell cares about how stiff the sidewall is dailying a 17 on a 40 or 45 profile tire.

 

[tigeo]

I appreciate this comment.

I ran a set of P4S on my previous car and agree they are a fantastic tire. Only issue is their price has increased dramatically in Canada over the last couple years making it a tough purchase to justify (would be almost double than a set of RS4s). There are a couple alternatives to the PS4 in that UHP category but most suffer from the same Canadian pricing problem as the P4S (although not to the same extent).
The one outlier seems to be the Indy 500 but, there is not a ton of easily available info out there and I'm hesitant on those for that reason. Also, the likelihood of them being near the performance of the P4S is very low. If they were, I feel i'd of heard more about them.

The ride quality of a 200 is not a huge concern for me as the stock wheels im getting rid of are 19s and the ride-quality is atrocious on those. The road noise is a different story the wife may get annoyed pretty quick. We are the "almost always listening to music when driving type" but, if its really bad it may not be worth the bump in "fun" when I get to drive the car fast.

As for the width, you guys have sold me on the 19s. So, thanks for the info and advice!

Indy 500s are very popular tires in the VW world at least down here, just a budget performance tire. PS4S certainly a $$ tires vs. the more budget-orientated 200s....problem there is the rain performance will not touch the PS4S for an all-arounder.

 

[Josiah_Farrow]

Indy 500s are very popular tires in the VW world at least down here, just a budget performance tire. PS4S certainly a $$ tires vs. the more budget-orientated 200s....problem there is the rain performance will not touch the PS4S for an all-arounder.

Good to know the Indy 500s are popular. That gives me a solid 3rd option.

I'm not that concerned about wet weather performance in terms of pushing the car/tires in the wet. Its my daily and once things get greasy on track I back off a ton because i need the car in one piece at the end of the day.
So, really my only concern on 200s in terms of wet "performance" is are they dangerous/very hard to drive in normal highway driving conditions (50-60 mph) when its raining. I never push the car in the rain on regular roads. I save my spirited road driving for when conditions are optimal.

 

[tigeo]

Good to know the Indy 500s are popular. That gives me a solid 3rd option.

I'm not that concerned about wet weather performance in terms of pushing the car/tires in the wet. Its my daily and once things get greasy on track I back off a ton because i need the car in one piece at the end of the day.
So, really my only concern on 200s in terms of wet "performance" is are they dangerous/very hard to drive in normal highway driving conditions (50-60 mph) when its raining. I never push the car in the rain on regular roads. I save my spirited road driving for when conditions are optimal.

The other comment about daily/street use of 200s...many really need some heat to get sticky so just driving to the store, you will likley have better performance from a PS4S.

 

[scrllock]

Good to know the Indy 500s are popular. That gives me a solid 3rd option.

I'm not that concerned about wet weather performance in terms of pushing the car/tires in the wet. Its my daily and once things get greasy on track I back off a ton because i need the car in one piece at the end of the day.
So, really my only concern on 200s in terms of wet "performance" is are they dangerous/very hard to drive in normal highway driving conditions (50-60 mph) when its raining. I never push the car in the rain on regular roads. I save my spirited road driving for when conditions are optimal.

If you want wet grip look at the newer continental ECS 02. Very popular for wet track use and a decent bit cheaper than PS4S. I'm replacing my 6 year-old michelins with a set this April. Great do-everything warm weather tire.
If I had to choose to use one tire all summer and I was only doing 2-3 trackdays, I'd probably prefer to err on the side of streetability.