Track Suspension-Coils +Aero

[Lord_Flexington]

So I've got an interesting question/situation.

Next year will be my fourth year of competing with my GTI. Its been a super fun journey and this winter is going to be wicked important for timing and development.

So from those of you who have planned or designed your car with competition in mind, how do yo go about calculating your options?


For reference, GTI is on 54k oem dampners with a sweet MSS Sport setup (static front), RSB, bushings etc. Pushing 400 with a TPC20 and a pieced together aero setup.

Next year I'll be running the new Aerofabb setup which is just honestly going to be awesome. This will be a major winter session for me n the team. New aero, new power modifications (fueling/tune), more race car spefic things inside and then suspension specfically coils is the biggest new challenge as that's one of the few things you can't really buy to "try". Also one of the areas I'm not as strong as from an experience or knowledge base standpoint.

So when you are comparing spring rates or dampners what are you comparing against to determine value without having seat time in different units. It would be cool to try every Spulen, KW, Fortune, JST, Swift, strut/spring combo out. However my bank account ain't built like that lol.

For those of you went to custom dampeners/springs what went wrong during that time period? What have you noticed are noticeable differences from one setup to another?

It's easy to look at tune/turbo responses and delivery to determine what works best, but suspension is not so easily explained (at least in my experience).

Like what separates a KW v3 vs an Ohlins Setup vs AST Tru coilover setup to you when debating purchasing?

 

[GTI Jake]

For your application Ohlins, Fortune, or comparable coilovers that can be re valved and rebuilt at least every off season are going to be your best bet.

There’s tons of experienced track guys here who can help you get a baseline for spring rates, but it’ll come down to preference after that based on how much rotation you want and which sway bars you plan to run.

As someone who just switched from springs on OEM to coilovers (B14 in my case, because B16 are forever backordered and it’s more daily than anything) it’ll be worth every penny. My only regret is not being able to dial in a little slower rebound, but that’s something I gambled by not waiting for B16 or opting for a more track orientated set up

 

[Lord_Flexington]

For your application Ohlins, Fortune, or comparable coilovers that can be re valved and rebuilt at least every off season are going to be your best bet.

There’s tons of experienced track guys here who can help you get a baseline for spring rates, but it’ll come down to preference after that based on how much rotation you want and which sway bars you plan to run.

As someone who just switched from springs on OEM to coilovers (B14 in my case, because B16 are forever backordered and it’s more daily than anything) it’ll be worth every penny. My only regret is not being able to dial in a little slower rebound, but that’s something I gambled by not waiting for B16 or opting for a more track orientated set up

Another idea I'm kicking around is taking something like the Spulen set and then swapping the springs out to something from swift/hypercoil. Taking a more affordable setup and seeing if i can create a mild monster.

 

[GTI Jake]

Another idea I'm kicking around is taking something like the Spulen set and then swapping the springs out to something from swift/hypercoil. Taking a more affordable setup and seeing if i can create a mild monster.

It would be very underwhelming since spring rates and valves need to be matched.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Another idea I'm kicking around is taking something like the Spulen set and then swapping the springs out to something from swift/hypercoil. Taking a more affordable setup and seeing if i can create a mild monster.

This may work, but depends entirely on the range of adjustment.

A good damper will blow off bumps and dips, be inverted, and externally adjustable. None of the shock companies offer much of these three must-have features, maybe KW, but they have other customer service issues.

The Ohlins R&T fit the bill for the least price of that value range. Anything less is a compromise, mostly in features.

You could skip the inverted part, but then due to packaging and body limitations the adjustment mechanisms are often hard to get to or blocked entirely.

If the shock is valved linearly or does not have blow-off features, the ride will be harsh.

 

[Lord_Flexington]

It would be very underwhelming since spring rates and valves need to be matched.

Hmmm which would require the spring shop having the unit there to do a test on to match or at least know the opertaing value of the damper in question. To be able to design a spring or suggest one for it. In a motorsport application.

This may work, but depends entirely on the range of adjustment.

A good damper will blow off bumps and dips, be inverted, and externally adjustable. None of the shock companies offer much of these three must-have features, maybe KW, but they have other customer service issues.

The Ohlins R&T fit the bill for the least price of that value range. Anything less is a compromise, mostly in features.

You could skip the inverted part, but then due to packaging and body limitations the adjustment mechanisms are often hard to get to or blocked entirely.

If the shock is valved linearly or does not have blow-off features, the ride will be harsh.

Good things to look into there. Now when you are talking about inverted, do you mean like the tru rears like Racingline/AST or something entirely.
I'm not opposed to keeping the separated setup. I'm sure its they both have their merits and benefits. I just don't have a way to say

x is better than Y because of Z when it comes to that

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Inverted is that the shock is, inverted. The shock body is mounted at the top of the car, and the shock shaft is housed inside the shock insert, which slides into the lower shock mount.

https://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/inverted/

Inverted is better because, in the MK7 GTI, the adjuster is often at the bottom and therefore reachable from underneath, and inverted shocks reduce unsprung weight, but this effect is much smaller than if you ran lighter weight wheels.

Separated allows you to run much wider wheels in the rear. I can run 265/35/18s on 18x9 wheels as a result.

 

[Keehs360]

In regards to power. Don’t go further than what the stock turbo can do. The more power you put down the more things in your suspension and brakes have to be tweaked and replaced. Otherwise your gonna get into a place where you’re gonna be spending big money. You’ll blink. Then all of a sudden have a time attack car LOL

I for one will stay at stage 1 power levels and focus on rear bracing first.

edit. Spelling. Sorry

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Why do people focus on rear bracing so early in the development of a car?

 

[Keehs360]

Why do people focus on rear bracing so early in the development of a car?

I can only speak for myself. I don’t know what others think. I’ve only had the car for like two or three months

but the front chassis is tight as fuck. Super responsive. Stiff. And preloads easily, though it feels kinda fake but whatever.

the rear feels like it wasn’t addressed at all. I can feel it flex. It feels loose as fuck. It’s as if the front got stitch welded but the rear was left alone in its 300k mile glory LOL

the rear seems to feel way worse in a non dcc equipped Gti. Imo at least.

I’d wait for other folks to kick in their two cents though. These are just my opinions.

 

[Gvazquez]

Idk how true that is cause when I added the front stut brace, that made the car feel so tight and connected. It was a world of difference but the rear needs attention now

 

[Keehs360]

Idk how true that is cause when I added the front stut brace, that made the car feel so tight and connected. It was a world of difference but the rear needs attention now

That’s interesting. Folks I know have told me the rear made a way way bigger noticeable difference than the front. One guy told me to avoid doing the front until everything else in the build is done considering you’ll hardly notice it

I also read two posts by probably two different people more or less saying the same thing?

If yours had a ton of miles before you added it, yeah I can see why it felt like a super noticeable difference.

I’ve only had mine for about three months or so. Naturally I’ll be deferring to all of u + the folks I know here in my neck of the woods.

 

[Gvazquez]

I haven't tested just a rear. I probably should have done that 1st but I heard good things about front. My car has 58k on it. Im gonna get a rear brace eventually and see how much of a difference that makes. Im also an A3 which is the same chassis. Im not sure how well feel actually translates to performance though

 

[Gptuners]

You’ll blink. Then all of a sudden have a time attack car LOL

I can tell you're still getting to know the people here. Lord Flexington actually does drive a time attack car.

 

[MrFabulous]

Chiming in with my experience. My requirements were quite similar to DaveC. I wanted an inverted strut, externally adjustable with good support and service within the USA. I really wanted a DA but in the grand scheme of things I'm not that serious about it anymore and SA is fine. A true coilover rear is appealing but I was concerned about space for the tire size I wanted to run. I will be working with 3DM Motorsports for my Ohlins RT. If you buy the kit from them, they will custom valve at no additional charge. Also, they carry Swift springs and Vorshlag camber plates. So it's a one stop shop for a bolt in solution.