Whose Stage II, then?

[tortoise]

Here in Massachusetts, we have an annual vehicular proctology exam that drives otherwise law-abiding folks to register their cars in South Dakota.

If you install the APR catted downpipe, you're going to pull a CEL on a Stage I tune and then you're in for it. The only way to get around that is by uninstalling your APR downpipe and reinstalling the OEM downpipe prior to your automotive bend-over at your local inspection station.

Speaking for myself, no thanks. Which means, I guess, I'll be looking at the AWE catted (and resonated, just because) downpipe.

And before you gag at the idea of spending $1100 on, well, a pipe, remember this: I live in Massachusetts, so it's just kind of another tax. This time on fun.

With that out of the way, there's the question of the tune.

Currently, I'm APR high torque, 93-octane Stage I. So why wouldn't I just cough up the $175 for APR's Stage II?

Maybe because APR seems to be running a bit of a...well, for a lack of a better word...racket on its Stage II tune. Yes, the tune shifts the torque curve and a bit to the left but, really, isn't its primary achievement shutting off those pesky O2 sensors that throw check engine lights all over your dash? Check engine lights that wouldn't light off in the first place if it offered a decent cat?

In other words, would it be reductive to say that they give you "for free" a Stage II tune that basically disguises the fact that the catalytic converter in their pipe isn't exactly OEM-level?

So if I'm going for the AWE dp, with its robust (and expensive) cat, why would I spend money on a tune that primarily switches off 02 sensors that won't bedevil it anyway?

Am I misunderstanding something here?

And in that case, what kind of stage II tune should I get?

Included in this tune is an upgraded (APR) intercooler, (APR) cai (about which I am suspicious as to its utility).

My understanding is that stock exhaust will be just fine.

Oh, and I'm driving a 2018 m7.5 R 6MT.

Nominations, anyone?

 

[Crild]

What the Fu*k did I just read.


On the APR note they use a GESSI cat which is 2nd to the HJS cat in terms of efficiency. It is one of the best CATS on the market, if you did any shred of research you would of figured this out. The only reason APR dp throws a CEL is due to the cat being moved from its OEM location to further downstream which makes it less efficient in this case & the best way to not throw one is to have everything stay in OEM locations when you replace something.

Intakes do jack sh*t for these cars. Just remove the snow guard on OEM air box and you have something as efficient as any aftermarket intake. All it is, is wallet candy.

Seeing as you're already APR you should of gotten their DP on the 20% sale and called it a day.

 

[tortoise]

What the Fu*k did I just read.


On the APR note they use a GESSI cat which is 2nd to the HJS cat in terms of efficiency. It is one of the best CATS on the market, if you did any shred of research you would of figured this out. The only reason APR dp throws a CEL is due to the cat being moved from its OEM location to further downstream which makes it less efficient in this case & the best way to not throw one is to have everything stay in OEM locations when you replace something.

Intakes do jack sh*t for these cars. Just remove the snow guard on OEM air box and you have something as efficient as any aftermarket intake. All it is, is wallet candy.

Seeing as you're already APR you should of gotten their DP on the 20% sale and called it a day.

Why would I want to spend $800 on a cat that’s “second best” but would be perfectly awesome if only they didn’t stuff it so far down the pipe that it threw a CEL?

Why would I want that for 20% off?

Why would I want it for 50% off?

Why would I want it at all?

 

[Cliff p.]

Why do any of that instead of just getting an o2 spacer? I'm catless, no CEL, and no readiness monitor issues. Just with a JB4 and a custom fabricated exhaust system.

 

[Hoon]

OP,

Take a look at the IE down pipe. On sale it's under $700 and should check all your boxes.

 

[OBP]

The IE dp isn't efficient enough to prevent the CE light from what's been reported here. I would go with the MAPerformance GESI dp option, saves you around $400 vs AWE.

I'd also keep your Stg 1 tune and monitor for any issues. If some arise (overboost would be the only thing I can think of), only then would I upgrade to the Stg 2 tune.

 

[tortoise]

Why do any of that instead of just getting an o2 spacer? I'm catless, no CEL, and no readiness monitor issues. Just with a JB4 and a custom fabricated exhaust system.

As I understand it, o2 spacers can cause fueling problems (mixture too rich, etc).

Also, not to be goody-two-shoes or anything, but I’d feel like I was cheating. But that’s just me, and I understand why others might arrive at a different conclusion.

 

[tortoise]

The IE dp isn't efficient enough to prevent the CE light from what's been reported here. I would go with the MAPerformance GESI dp option, saves you around $400 vs AWE.

I'd also keep your Stg 1 tune and monitor for any issues. If some arise (overboost would be the only thing I can think of), only then would I upgrade to the Stg 2 tune.

Good advice all around. I’ll check out MAPerformance. I’ll have to research GESI a bir further but, as I understand it, GESI makes several different grades of cat. Sometimee “you get what you pay for” but other times you just pay because they see you coming, so with that in mind, might you have any idea what accounts for the difference in price between MAPerformance and AWE?

 

[Hoon]

As I understand it, o2 spacers can cause fueling problems (mixture too rich, etc).

Also, not to be a goody-too-shoes or anything, but I’d feel like I was cheating. But that’s just me, and I understand why others might arrive at a different conclusion.

Both the primary and secondary sensors are used for fueling calculations on MK7s.

Removing the secondary from the exhaust stream, while effective, is a bit of a hack job.

 

[Hoon]

The IE dp isn't efficient enough to prevent the CE light from what's been reported here. I would go with the MAPerformance GESI dp option, saves you around $400 vs AWE.

I'd also keep your Stg 1 tune and monitor for any issues. If some arise (overboost would be the only thing I can think of), only then would I upgrade to the Stg 2 tune.

Good to know, haven't heard that but then again I pay no attention to which DPs cause CELs.

You should be running a stage 2 tune with a DP anyway so it's a moot point IMO.

These cars are speed density, so you want your VE tables as close as possible.

 

[Crild]

Good advice all around. I’ll check out MAPerformance. I’ll have to research GESI a bir further but, as I understand it, GESI makes several different grades of cat. Sometimee “you get what you pay for” but other times you just pay because they see you coming, so with that in mind, might you have any idea what accounts for the difference in price between MAPerformance and AWE?

Both MAP & APR run 300 cell gessi cats. That's their generic Motorsports cat & works very well. See videos on YouTube about it.

Awe uses hjs euro 6 compliment cats and those puppies are around $600 just for the cat. I believe the awe hjs is a 400 cell high flow iirc.

The MAP shouldn't throw a cell but it's very rare to find someone with the gessi version. I know from Black Friday sale the gessi versions are one a 4-6 week backorder due to them fabricating In house.

 

[italynstylion]

I'm running Stage II from APR and I don't have ANY CELs. Who told you that Stage II made the car throw a CEL? We have emissions testing/inspections every year in Texas too and mine hasn't ever failed.

 

[Hoon]

I'm running Stage II from APR and I don't have ANY CELs. Who told you that Stage II made the car throw a CEL? We have emissions testing/inspections every year in Texas too and mine hasn't ever failed.

MA is a CARB state (California standards)...very different from TX.

 

[demi9od]

I thought an APR with the right spacer would not throw a cell on Stage1/JB4, allowing you to have you cake and eat it too.

 

[tortoise]

I'm running Stage II from APR and I don't have ANY CELs. Who told you that Stage II made the car throw a CEL? We have emissions testing/inspections every year in Texas too and mine hasn't ever failed.

Stage II does not throw CELs because it shuts off the o2 sensors. But it will not pass inspection in MA. Stage I doesn’t shut off the o2 sensors, but you’ll trigger a CEL with APR.