lets discuss downpipes

[mattkime]

As best I can tell, an upgraded downpipe will help your engine jettison exhaust more efficiently, increasing hp.

I'm confused why so many people on this forum are enthusiastic about downpipe upgrades when, at least by APR's numbers, they don't seem to add much power - https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_18tsi_gen3_mqb.html

(perhaps I'm due for a lesson on why not to trust APR's numbers)

so tell me - why all the enthusiasm for downpipe upgrades?

 

[MeltedSolid]

APR's numbers are pretty accurate. There isn't much peak increase with a downpipe but it mostly helps fill in the power in the lower and higher end. Look at the performance numbers further down on the page, they will give you a better picture of this effect.

Another thing worth note is the effect of a downpipe is a lot more noticeable on the GTI than our cars because of it's variable exhaust valves which we don't get on the 1.8t, and as GTI's are by far the most common car on the forums their voice is heard a lot more. Even still, a downpipe is the 3rd best price to performance mod for our cars behind a tune/piggyback and an IS20 swap (if done DIY). I personally don't have a downpipe because I'm already making as much power as I could want and I'm not sure the risk of failing a future smog check and an increase in smelliness is worth the bit of extra power. I also like our planet.

 

[Junkboy]

From my experience, the downpipe is a good upgrade. Is it night or day difference? If you compare it to stock to stage 1....no but the turbo does spool up quicker. I have no Dyno number from it but I call tell in the "butt Dyno"

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[GTI Jake]

Flow of mods for best results...upgraded dog bone mount, tune, clutch/DSG tune, IC, DP, retune, is38 (retune again)

Go till you're budget says stop. Each mod working left to right will help support the next one.

Not every single mod will make a 80hp jump, but each one will add up to a better, faster car

 

[TwinDad]

I would disagree with above, but they are all good mods. This is the golf section, not the gti. Best mods in order for a golf would be tune, downpipe, IS20, intercooler, clutch on manuals. Dogbone insert only matters if you are trying to drag race or go from a dig. We will surely hear about breaking shafts now like we do on other posts, but no one has done it yet. The downpipe might not show much on a dyno, but it makes a difference in overall average power. Just in APR's testing, they knocked 1.4 seconds off 0-100. That is huge.

 

[mattkime]

>Best mods in order for a golf would be tune, downpipe, IS20, intercooler, clutch on manuals.

>Just in APR's testing, they knocked 1.4 seconds off 0-100. That is huge.

Thanks TwinDad, I definitely owe you a beer or two by now.

My plan keeps changing as a I ask questions.

Right now the plan is to get a JB4 and see from there - after looking more closely at the APR numbers and thinking about what I want, perhaps its really torque that I'm after. I'm never going to race, doubt i'll ever take it over 80 mph. Just want a more spirited daily driver.

 

[toledospeed]

OP, I was skeptical of the DP too after looking at APR peak data numbers, but it really is a nice "area under the curve mod" for the IS12 (with matching stage 2 tune or JB4 settings). It's a tough choice and I was also on the fence early on. If you don't tune the 1.8, I wouldn't recommend a DP at all since it isn't making enough boost (and exhaust volume) to matter. If you are choosing between stage 1 or stage 2 IS12, then it gets a bit more difficult. It really depends on how long you will keep the car, warranty concerns, emissions inspections etc. It will also make the car louder. If that isn't for you, then I would not recommend it. You can tame it with some exhaust mods, adding a resonator etc., but it will always be louder than the stock DP with the same catback installed.

However, if you go IS20, then I would highly recommend it. I went IS20 and added a DP at the same time. The DP will definitely put a smile on your face, I can say that. The spool up feels quite a bit more effortless without the backpressure limiting the turbo. And of course, just like on a stage 2 GTI, it really makes a nice difference as you turn up the boost on the IS20. That all said, it really isn't necessary for the IS20 upgrade either. Some are running with the stock DP and are still getting real nice power out of the IS20...just like on a stage 1 GTI.

I would disagree with above, but they are all good mods. This is the golf section, not the gti. Best mods in order for a golf would be tune, downpipe, IS20, intercooler, clutch on manuals. Dogbone insert only matters if you are trying to drag race or go from a dig. We will surely hear about breaking shafts now like we do on other posts, but no one has done it yet. The downpipe might not show much on a dyno, but it makes a difference in overall average power. Just in APR's testing, they knocked 1.4 seconds off 0-100. That is huge.

Agreed, I would not do the dogbone mount for a DD.

 

[GTI Jake]

I would disagree with above, but they are all good mods. This is the golf section, not the gti. Best mods in order for a golf would be tune, downpipe, IS20, intercooler, clutch on manuals. Dogbone insert only matters if you are trying to drag race or go from a dig. We will surely hear about breaking shafts now like we do on other posts, but no one has done it yet. The downpipe might not show much on a dyno, but it makes a difference in overall average power. Just in APR's testing, they knocked 1.4 seconds off 0-100. That is huge.

Even at stock power I had terrible wheel hop and have never launched my mk7 from a dig. Even 2nd gear roll ons were bad in the dry, let alone the wet.

I feel like to be able to enjoy the car stock, let alone tuned a dog bone insert is a must. But to each their own. For the $40 price tag and 10min install I feel like if you're on the fence you need to try one yourself.

I have full BFI stage 2 mounts and daily drive my car 30,000 miles a year (very little highway). NVH is no worse than a stock non German car...throw a Subaru or honda owner in your passenger seat and they'll never question it once.

 

[MeltedSolid]

I highly agree with Gti jake, a dogbone insert is a phenomenal mod that everyone should do. I have the 034 insert which is particularly known for not increasing NVH. In my experience while daily driving it makes little difference other than the shift from 1st to 2nd being easier and the clutch feeling a bit more responsive (maybe a tad more vibration at idle), and my experience while driving it hard is significantly reduced wheel hop, both in the harshness of wheel hop and how commonly it happens, and generally a feeling of reduced slop in the drivetrain. It is important to note that my dogbone is compatible with the V1 insert which has been known to be a lot better than the V2 insert.

 

[toledospeed]

I highly agree with Gti jake, a dogbone insert is a phenomenal mod that everyone should do. I have the 034 insert which is particularly known for not increasing NVH. In my experience while daily driving it makes little difference other than the shift from 1st to 2nd being easier and the clutch feeling a bit more responsive (maybe a tad more vibration at idle), and my experience while driving it hard is significantly reduced wheel hop, both in the harshness of wheel hop and how commonly it happens, and generally a feeling of reduced slop in the drivetrain. It is important to note that my dogbone is compatible with the V1 insert which has been known to be a lot better than the V2 insert.

May need to do some additional research. I have the V1 stock mount. I have read so many different opinions on inserts, brands etc. I've also run similar setups on other manual cars and did experience NVH. I have an automatic, so I really haven't considered it. Wheel hop hasn't really been an issue for me either, maybe I don't drive it hard enough lol. Would like to hear from automatic TSI owners on what they think it has done for them.

 

[TwinDad]

I get very little wheelhop from a dead stop only and it depends on the road surface. I do have the bfi insert, just need to put it in. I'm not saying it's not a good mod, I just wouldn't put it as a necessity over the tune and downpipe. It is cheap though , so why not?

 

[toledospeed]

I get very little wheelhop from a dead stop only and it depends on the road surface. I do have the bfi insert, just need to put it in. I'm not saying it's not a good mod, I just wouldn't put it as a necessity over the tune and downpipe. It is cheap though , so why not?

Let me know how it goes! May give it a try at some point here.

 

[Joviemk7]

Dont mean to thread hijack here but seeing as so many of you guys have IS20 swapped your golf did you just do swap the is20 and DP and keep the stock intercooler, and also was the is20 new or used?

 

[GTI Jake]

I just wouldn't put it as a necessity over the tune and downpipe. It is cheap though , so why not?

It's not a necessity over a DP and tune, it's really required to fully enjoy a DP and tune. Even 40mph roll ons can be violent without upgraded mounts. The excessive driveline slop effects a manual worse, for sure, but even DSG will suffer from wheel hop from a roll

I've personally seen a stage 1 car snap a dog bone because of wheel hop (no insert). I'd rather see everyone spend the $40 upfront then need a tow and be out a car for 3-5 days waiting on parts

 

[MeltedSolid]

Dont mean to thread hijack here but seeing as so many of you guys have IS20 swapped your golf did you just do swap the is20 and DP and keep the stock intercooler, and also was the is20 new or used?

I think we're all pretty bad about jacking threads . As mentioned above I have not swapped my downpipe but I have swapped the turbo. You'll see in my IS20 installation guide that I got a used IS20 from the classifieds of this forum and I highly recommend everyone do the same. The going rate for a used IS20 is roughly $400 shipped last time I checked, so far better than the $1300+ for a new one. I think my next engine mod will be an intercooler as heat soak is definitely an issue I am dealing with.