Burger Tuning JB4 Golf 1.8TSI MQB specific information thread

I put on a catless downpipe today. It was an eBay special, so I have to play around with a different reducer to get it to bolt up to the stock exhaust. It's designed for the gti. Overall it went in perfectly without any issues other than getting the right adapter. I have it rigged right now, but I'm getting a little bit of a leak. Can hear it. Even with that, it's still pretty quiet. I think I'll be quite happy with the sound. I ran some logs with it and I'm able to run it on my e85 map with just 93. It ramps up quicker and I'm getting higher boost levels in the lower rpms, same peak as the e85, and also carrying more boost through the upper rpms. I'm very happy with the purchase. Especially for $90. I did go get a few gallons more of e85 after work, but wasn't able to log it yet. I'll see how it does tomorrow. I was hitting 18.5 psi without it today, might be able to get 20psi. ����

TwinDad said:

I put on a catless downpipe today. It was an eBay special, so I have to play around with a different reducer to get it to bolt up to the stock exhaust. It's designed for the gti. Overall it went in perfectly without any issues other than getting the right adapter. I have it rigged right now, but I'm getting a little bit of a leak. Can hear it. Even with that, it's still pretty quiet. I think I'll be quite happy with the sound. I ran some logs with it and I'm able to run it on my e85 map with just 93. It ramps up quicker and I'm getting higher boost levels in the lower rpms, same peak as the e85, and also carrying more boost through the upper rpms. I'm very happy with the purchase. Especially for $90. I did go get a few gallons more of e85 after work, but wasn't able to log it yet. I'll see how it does tomorrow. I was hitting 18.5 psi without it today, might be able to get 20psi. ����

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Nice. I'm still debating a downpipe, but before I go for one I really need to do some detailed research of California's emission laws. From my research so far any car after the year 2000 doesn't need a sniffer test, but I would probably still need to reinstall my downpipe every time I took an emissions test (which starts in a few years). I also don't want my car to be smelly and am not a fan of pollution, so I would prefer to use as good a cat as possible, but I don't have the budget for that right now. It would be really nice to up my power just that much more though.

On another note, my IS20 swap is over halfway done! I started it last weekend, but had to postpone it's completion because the school week started. Currently the IS12 is disconnected but won't fit through the gap between the engine and the firewall, so I probably have to remove my dogbone bolt. I hope to have it done by tomorrow, and can't to start logging and tuning!

MeltedSolid said:

Nice. I'm still debating a downpipe, but before I go for one I really need to do some detailed research of California's emission laws. From my research so far any car after the year 2000 doesn't need a sniffer test, but I would probably still need to reinstall my downpipe every time I took an emissions test (which starts in a few years). I also don't want my car to be smelly and am not a fan of pollution, so I would prefer to use as good a cat as possible, but I don't have the budget for that right now. It would be really nice to up my power just that much more though.

On another note, my IS20 swap is over halfway done! I started it last weekend, but had to postpone it's completion because the school week started. Currently the IS12 is disconnected but won't fit through the gap between the engine and the firewall, so I probably have to remove my dogbone bolt. I hope to have it done by tomorrow, and can't to start logging and tuning!

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Nice!! I'm jealous. Just when I thought I might be gaining in you. Lol. It might be worth using the gti downpipe with the IS20 if you are staying stock. The larger diameter pipe may help a bit. I was also considering just getting a converter from magnaflow and adding it to the downpipe. I know they are not the best, but they should help some and are under $100. Could be a solution for you. There is also someone selling a GESI converter right now in the classifieds.

MeltedSolid said:

Nice. I'm still debating a downpipe, but before I go for one I really need to do some detailed research of California's emission laws. From my research so far any car after the year 2000 doesn't need a sniffer test, but I would probably still need to reinstall my downpipe every time I took an emissions test (which starts in a few years). I also don't want my car to be smelly and am not a fan of pollution, so I would prefer to use as good a cat as possible, but I don't have the budget for that right now. It would be really nice to up my power just that much more though.

On another note, my IS20 swap is over halfway done! I started it last weekend, but had to postpone it's completion because the school week started. Currently the IS12 is disconnected but won't fit through the gap between the engine and the firewall, so I probably have to remove my dogbone bolt. I hope to have it done by tomorrow, and can't to start logging and tuning!

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I should have taken video. But my IS12 came out from the top. I don't remember doing anything special to make it happen.

My downpipe was off?

Ton said:

I should have taken video. But my IS12 came out from the top. I don't remember doing anything special to make it happen.

My downpipe was off?

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I saw a video online about swapping to an IS38 on the gti. They did it from the top, but had to unbolt some stuff from the top of the engine to clear. They might have pulled it out on the drivers side

TwinDad said:

Nice!! I'm jealous. Just when I thought I might be gaining in you. Lol. It might be worth using the gti downpipe with the IS20 if you are staying stock. The larger diameter pipe may help a bit. I was also considering just getting a converter from magnaflow and adding it to the downpipe. I know they are not the best, but they should help some and are under $100. Could be a solution for you. There is also someone selling a GESI converter right now in the classifieds.

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Yea, I was just thinking about how just as you made that post you were finally truly and unquestionably faster than me, but that it won't last much longer than a few days .

I've been thinking about different options for giving me more airflow while still keeping it legal, but that list isn't very long. My preferred method would be if I could cut the stock cat out of my downpipe and fabricate up a custom 3" downpipe with it, but I don't know enough about the restrictions of our downpipes to know if that would increase the airflow significantly. I'll just keep researching for now.

TwinDad said:

I saw a video online about swapping to an IS38 on the gti. They did it from the top, but had to unbolt some stuff from the top of the engine to clear. They might have pulled it out on the drivers side

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Yea, I think that's the only person who has done any videos on the swap at all! The things he had to unbolt aren't actually there on our 1.8's, another difference between our engines and the GTI's I wasn't expecting. I think it had something to do with a variable cam shaft. I've been trying to pull it out like he described, but I need about a half inch more clearance and it's really annoying. I'll be starting working on it again soon, so I'll add an update later today.

I finally got the turbo out! I decided to try just lifting it up from the center, which I guess is what Ton did. There's no need to go driver's side or passenger's side like the video suggested and doing so makes it impossible on the 1.8 as far as I can tell. I figure the reason the guy in the video didn't try it is the actuator things would have gotten in the way, but because we don't have those the center is by far the easiest.

Also, mostly out of curiosity, I decided to find out if I could tell the difference between the IS20 and the IS12. It turns out the IS20 is actually quite substantially larger than the IS12.

IS12:


IS20:


IS12:


IS20:


IS12:


IS20:

Nice work! Glad you were able to get it from the top.

Huray! Turbo is in and car is idling away and with no check engine light! I do still have one bolt that I don't know where it goes though...



It's a bit concerning as it's the same type of bolt all of the oil and coolant lines use, but I've double checked all of those and know it's not that. Ton, do you remember an extra one of these that wasn't a coolant or oil bolt?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found where it goes. It was the secondary bolt for the turbo oil feed line, so thankfully not a big deal that I hadn't installed it. Anyways, no check engine lights, and the coolant seems to have gotten almost all of the air out of it already. The oil level seems to have dropped a negligible amount as well, but I didn't spill much so that makes sense.

I've already done my first log with it, having reset the JB4 to map 4. This is what a 1.8t with APR stage 1 does with an IS20, not even the slightest hint of timing correction across the board so I'm feeling good! http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-1488092544?log=0&data=1-2-4-11-14-15-18-25-26-27-28

Looks good. How does it compare to the IS12 on the logs. Same boost or is it holding more on the top? I'd imagine a t the same boost it might feels the same

MeltedSolid said:

Huray! Turbo is in and car is idling away and with no check engine light!

I've already done my first log with it, having reset the JB4 to map 4. This is what a 1.8t with APR stage 1 does with an IS20, not even the slightest hint of timing correction across the board so I'm feeling good! http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-1488092544?log=0&data=1-2-4-11-14-15-18-25-26-27-28

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Congrats, nice job! Any chance you might be able to do writeup with the macro steps/order, trials/tribulations, tips/tricks, parts/tools whilst this is fresh in your mind?

TwinDad said:

Nice!! I'm jealous. Just when I thought I might be gaining in you. Lol. It might be worth using the gti downpipe with the IS20 if you are staying stock. The larger diameter pipe may help a bit. I was also considering just getting a converter from magnaflow and adding it to the downpipe. I know they are not the best, but they should help some and are under $100. Could be a solution for you. There is also someone selling a GESI converter right now in the classifieds.

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The GTI/IS20 downpipe is the same as the Golf 1.8t /IS12 downpipe (Edit: this is what I was originally told when someone compared them about a year ago, but there may be some minor diffs). Until you go IS20, the downpipe on the Golf doesn't give near the gains as it does with the GTI/IS20. Not saying it isn't worth it, it certainly is, but it is more of a "maximize the area under the curve" mod than like on the GTI/IS20 where you see much higher max HP/TQ gains. For the cost, I think swapping the turbo like MeltedSolid has done is likely a better move for the 1.8 crowd than the downpipe upgrade since it will give much better gains for the $ spent (assuming you get a used IS12 and do it yourself). If I do end up doing the swap, I would likely do both the downpipe and IS20 at the same time. It is great to see the potential for the 1.8t gen 3's finally coming to fruition!

toledospeed said:

Congrats, nice job! Any chance you might be able to do writeup with the macro steps/order, trials/tribulations, tips/tricks, parts/tools whilst this is fresh in your mind?



The GTI/IS20 downpipe is the same as the Golf 1.8t /IS12 downpipe (Edit: this is what I was originally told when someone compared them about a year ago, but there may be some minor diffs). Until you go IS20, the downpipe on the Golf doesn't give near the gains as it does with the GTI/IS20. Not saying it isn't worth it, it certainly is, but it is more of a "maximize the area under the curve" mod than like on the GTI/IS20 where you see much higher max HP/TQ gains. For the cost, I think swapping the turbo like MeltedSolid has done is likely a better move for the 1.8 crowd than the downpipe upgrade since it will give much better gains for the $ spent (assuming you get a used IS12 and do it yourself). If I do end up doing the swap, I would likely do both the downpipe and IS20 at the same time. It is great to see the potential for the 1.8t gen 3's finally coming to fruition!

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I'm running a stock GTI downpipe. It is larger than the golf. The piping diameter is slightly larger. The cat is the same though.

murtaza911 said:

I'm running a stock GTI downpipe. It is larger than the golf. The piping diameter is slightly larger. The cat is the same though.

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Yes, I found the side-by-side pic (courtesy of member SK VeeDubR).

It could make a difference once you move up to the IS20, but not so much without it. That is my main problem with spending money on any 1.8t downpipe upgrade. Even if you go with a proper high-flow aftermarket DP, the max gains are not that impressive as when compared to the gains seen on the GTI (see APR 93 stage 1 vs stage 2 graphs on their website). On the 1.8t, you only get a few HP/TQ across the powerband, with a gain of only 3 WTQ and 4 WHP at the top end. The GTI downpipe would arguably give you even less.

However, once we move up to the IS20, then the aftermarket DP now really begins to complement the gains (like the GTI) and the 1.8t can easily achieve 300 WTQ\250 WHP on the JB4 without any other tuning solutions (George shared a dyno sheet with me a few months ago). Compare this to APR stage 2 with the IS12 where they advertise 283WTQ/234WHP. It's not hard to see that the IS20 is really where the bang for your buck lies for the 1.8t.

As for the rest of the equation (as compared to the GTI), our 2.25" cat-back would theoretically become limiting at some point, but that is probably not until about 280-300 WHP I reckon. On the 1.8t, with the non-variable exhaust cam timing, we won't ever have the same exhaust flow control that the GTI has in order to spin the turbo. That said, a 300 WTQ/250 WHP 1.8t is something that is pretty impressive considering the crank gains over stock form. It is also probably a good place to stop on the stock transmission (auto should be fine, manual will need an upgraded clutch).

TwinDad said:

Looks good. How does it compare to the IS12 on the logs. Same boost or is it holding more on the top? I'd imagine a t the same boost it might feels the same

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It feels a tad bit faster, but no more than the jump from APR to stacking with the JB4. That being said, when I took the log it's peak boost was slightly higher than I had ever seen and it was holding around 1psi more at 6000rpm, which feels about right. Thankfully I was able to log in almost the exactly the same ambient temperature as the first time I logged with map 4 and just APR stage 1 (10 C vs 10.5 C), and the IAT after 4000rpm is virtually identical, so this is a very good comparison. I also decided to look at the lag, and while it felt basically identical while driving, apparantly it took ~3s and 900rpm to build to max boost from 1900rpm vs ~2.2s and 650rpm with the IS12. I was surprised the difference is so great in the logs because it really doesn't feel like much when driving. I guess more importantly it's capable of easily reaching it's target boost at considerably less than 3000rpm, which is very impressive for so much power.

toledospeed said:

Congrats, nice job! Any chance you might be able to do writeup with the macro steps/order, trials/tribulations, tips/tricks, parts/tools whilst this is fresh in your mind?



The GTI/IS20 downpipe is the same as the Golf 1.8t /IS12 downpipe (Edit: this is what I was originally told when someone compared them about a year ago, but there may be some minor diffs). Until you go IS20, the downpipe on the Golf doesn't give near the gains as it does with the GTI/IS20. Not saying it isn't worth it, it certainly is, but it is more of a "maximize the area under the curve" mod than like on the GTI/IS20 where you see much higher max HP/TQ gains. For the cost, I think swapping the turbo like MeltedSolid has done is likely a better move for the 1.8 crowd than the downpipe upgrade since it will give much better gains for the $ spent (assuming you get a used IS12 and do it yourself). If I do end up doing the swap, I would likely do both the downpipe and IS20 at the same time. It is great to see the potential for the 1.8t gen 3's finally coming to fruition!

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I'll try a write up, as I think I can currently run through all of the steps in my head, but I didn't take many pictures so I would need to work with what I have.

An IS20 swap takes a LOT more time and effort to perform than just a downpipe swap, but if all you care about is the price per performance (like me) then an IS20 swap would not only have a greater power yield than a downpipe, but is also cheaper than the average downpipe. Who would have thought that one day upgrading your turbo would be cheaper than upgrading a piece of piping! This turbo swap is well worth it!

toledospeed said:

Yes, I found the side-by-side pic (courtesy of member SK VeeDubR).

It could make a difference once you move up to the IS20, but not so much without it. That is my main problem with spending money on any 1.8t downpipe upgrade. Even if you go with a proper high-flow aftermarket DP, the max gains are not that impressive as when compared to the gains seen on the GTI (see APR 93 stage 1 vs stage 2 graphs on their website). On the 1.8t, you only get a few HP/TQ across the powerband, with a gain of only 3 WTQ and 4 WHP at the top end.

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What your not looking at in the APR website is the acceleration times and their differences. The dyno graph does not show the whole story. Nearly 1.3 seconds quicker to 100 mph is quite a noticeable difference by just adding the downpipe and accompanied tune. I have a hard time believing that it's not worth it. I did a downpipe last week. I'm peaking at 2.5 more psi than the stock downpipe on straight 93, and I'm carrying an additional 1.5 psi at 6400 rpm on just 93 than I could with e85 on the stock downpipe. I'm also reaching higher boost from 2,500-3,500. So basically the downpipe allows me to surpass what I needed e85 to hit with the stock downpipe. I'm not sure how that's not worth it. I forgot to add that my downpipe was $90 used. I spent another $30 on some new clamps, adapter and wraps. $120, done in a little over an hour on jack stands.