Burger Tuning JB4 Golf 1.8TSI MQB specific information thread

[johnmnmayo]

Given that we're all fwd we tend to ignore 0-60 . I measured a ~6.27s with APR stage 1 with an excellent launch, but Map 1 is pretty conservative so that would be pretty hard to match. Theoretically if I was able to actually consistently launch my car I should be in the mid 5's right now, but to me the more interesting number is 60-100 which my best is 6s flat. I think most people with conservative jb4 maps are in the low 9's to high 8's from 60-100.

You got me confused there for a bit. With APR stage 1 you get approximately 6.27s. But you're saying with your jb4+stock internals, you estimate mid 5?

I just started with this jb4 and as soon as we (mostly George) determine what's best, I will try a 0 to 60 and make a rough estimate Maybe make a short video clip and base the time from there. Of course it won't be accurate but close.

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[MeltedSolid]

You got me confused there for a bit. With APR stage 1 you get approximately 6.27s. But you're saying with your jb4+stock internals, you estimate mid 5?

I just started with this jb4 and as soon as we (mostly George) determine what's best, I will try a 0 to 60 and make a rough estimate Maybe make a short video clip and base the time from there. Of course it won't be accurate but close.

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nonono, I have a turbo swap so my car is a lot faster than it was when I did 6.27s. I tend to spin through 2nd gear though, so no matter how much more power I added I wouldn't be able to go faster than mid-low 5's on street tires.

 

[Slick99]

What firmware update? I didn't know they released one yet for the JB4

I think going to release next week or so

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[Steenbeek]

UGH, I'm going to throw up.

Fuel Bias is at 100.

I have the same issues once in a while that afr keeps going up at the end. But only in low gears. From 4th everything is perfect.

What confuses me is that trims is going down and not holding constant at least.
This should be the reason why afr is climbing. The reason for that can also be that the engine is trying to lean the mixture a bit up to increase the egt. Otherwise the catalyst is not working efficient in some cases.

Have you tried alternative fuels the check out the ign1 in mid range?

 

[TwinDad]

I did some more logging tonight with the updated firmware...

45 degrees F, 93 octane fuel. About 5-10 minutes between logs. I'm noticing that my car is having a hard time putting out the target boost above 5300rpm.

First log is on Map 1. I think AFR, Trims, and Ign1 all look pretty good, no?

https://datazap.me/u/stuntnuts/log-1507856977?log=0&data=1-4-11-14-18

The second log is on Map 2. AFR looks good, Trims look decent, Ign1 has a couple of craters in it. Again, can't keep up with target boost above 5300rpm.

https://datazap.me/u/stuntnuts/log-1507857097?log=0&data=1-4-11-14-18

The third log is a bit scary. Also on Map 2. AFR is has a couple of decent spikes in it. Trims have quite a spread. Ign1 spreads between 1 and 14.5. Is that dangerous? I don't understand Ign1. And again, tough time keeping up with targeted boost.

https://datazap.me/u/stuntnuts/log-1507857270?log=0&data=1-4-11-14-18

So I'd say the firmware update helped AFR, but Trims and Ign1 are still all over the place. This seems much more pronounced on Map 2 than on Map 1.

I'm in contact with George, but if anyone has any input on this mess, I'd love to hear from you.

I really want to get this sorted out so I can feel comfortable installing my IS20.

Overall it doesn't look bad at all. Your AFR does get a little lean at the top. A spike in the AFR for one cell is nothing. Remember that the JB4 is calculating and adjusting. A lean spot will show the same AFR across several cells. Like for a period of 400-500 rpms. Trims and ign1 change throughout. They are supposed to ign1 should always be going up for the most part. You might see a slight dip around 3,500-4,000, but you want it to continue to climb. If you can get it to 18.5 degrees at 6,400, you hit the jackpot of timing advance 14 is a little low for just map 2. Trims will change as more fuel is added. Yours are completely fine. You want to keep them under 50. When you start getting 45+, then you need to raise the FOL. I've had zero luck using additive with the 1.8. I run an absolute and it responds much better. Kind of like what Diggs shared above. Try that in map 6 and set your boost limit to 19. Run some logs and see how it does. Also, what fuel are you using?

 

[stuntnuts]

I have the same issues once in a while that afr keeps going up at the end. But only in low gears. From 4th everything is perfect.

What confuses me is that trims is going down and not holding constant at least.
This should be the reason why afr is climbing. The reason for that can also be that the engine is trying to lean the mixture a bit up to increase the egt. Otherwise the catalyst is not working efficient in some cases.

Have you tried alternative fuels the check out the ign1 in mid range?

I don't see myself logging in 4th, it is just irresponsible to others on the roadways.

As far as alternative fuels, no. There are no alternative fuels available to me in my area. I shouldn't need rocket ship fuel to run this thing on goddamn Map1.

This is all pretty discouraging. I planned on an IS20 swap with APR software. I find out that APR doesn't have IS20 software for 2wd Sportwagens, so I decide to give the JB4 a go. I installed the JB4 on the stock engine beforehand to see how I like it and it can't even function in its most basic form properly with a stock engine on premium fuel. How will it ever run an IS20.

I'm so discouraged right now.....

 

[stuntnuts]

Overall it doesn't look bad at all. Your AFR does get a little lean at the top. A spike in the AFR for one cell is nothing. Remember that the JB4 is calculating and adjusting. A lean spot will show the same AFR across several cells. Like for a period of 400-500 rpms. Trims and ign1 change throughout. They are supposed to ign1 should always be going up for the most part. You might see a slight dip around 3,500-4,000, but you want it to continue to climb. If you can get it to 18.5 degrees at 6,400, you hit the jackpot of timing advance 14 is a little low for just map 2. Trims will change as more fuel is added. Yours are completely fine. You want to keep them under 50. When you start getting 45+, then you need to raise the FOL. I've had zero luck using additive with the 1.8. I run an absolute and it responds much better. Kind of like what Diggs shared above. Try that in map 6 and set your boost limit to 19. Run some logs and see how it does. Also, what fuel are you using?

Thanks for the advice. I'm running Sunoco 93 octane. If this doesn't get sorted out on this tank, I will try Shell 93.
Your opinion on its lack of ability to meet Target boost in the upper end of the RPM range is because Maps 1 & 2 are additive, which don't work well with the 1.8 engine?

 

[TwinDad]

Thanks for the advice. I'm running Sunoco 93 octane. If this doesn't get sorted out on this tank, I will try Shell 93.
Your opinion on its lack of ability to meet Target boost in the upper end of the RPM range is because Maps 1 & 2 are additive, which don't work well with the 1.8 engine?

The not hitting target is really just the frustration of additive. I had the same issues. Went to absolute and never looked back. Everything else on your log is not bad. Here is one of my older logs on the stock downpipe. I have learned since this and would change a few things. First was I didn't start at a low enough rpm. Second, I would raise my FOL to 65 since my trims were getting a little higher
https://datazap.me/u/jcranwell/185t-165psi?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-11-18-25-26

 

[Steenbeek]

I don't see myself logging in 4th, it is just irresponsible to others on the roadways.

As far as alternative fuels, no. There are no alternative fuels available to me in my area. I shouldn't need rocket ship fuel to run this thing on goddamn Map1.

This is all pretty discouraging. I planned on an IS20 swap with APR software. I find out that APR doesn't have IS20 software for 2wd Sportwagens, so I decide to give the JB4 a go. I installed the JB4 on the stock engine beforehand to see how I like it and it can't even function in its most basic form properly with a stock engine on premium fuel. How will it ever run an IS20.

I'm so discouraged right now.....

Hi don't be frustrated. Just try Map6 and compare that. I started from the beginning with map 6 and I love it. As long as afr doesn't go above 15 it should be cool.

The fuel does matter so maybe try another brand. I saw a big difference in timing between ron98 and ron100. This is what I get over here at the pump.
In Germany the Autobahn is one advantage so I can also log in 5th if I want to [emoji106] [emoji6] .


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[ketoi12345678]

This is my map 2 log, here
FOL was at 60, temp outside was 80F, 93 Shell gas, stock DP, stock turbo, snow guard removed.
Can someone school me on the blue line (real boost) and the pink line (target boost)? In the map 2 above, why blue line boost higher than the target line?

This is map 6 with FOL 60, boost safety at 20, here
1500 11
2000 12
2500 13
3000 13
4000 15
4500 16
5000 15
5500 13
6000 13
6500 12
7000 12

My ignition 1 dip more than 2 at 4345 RPM, 6064 RPM so I lowered the boost at 4000 to 14.5, and at 6000 to 12.5. The highest number of the ignition line was 13.
Question:
1. Why in this map, the actual boost (blue line) lower than the target boost (pink line) while on map 2 the boost was always higher?
2. When you get a dip in ignition line, you lower the boost at that RPM?
3. I wasn't unable to get the actual boost near the target boost, what wrong?

This log was the run after I lowered the boost as described above, here
In this run, I ran on the lightly different road, from 2000 RPM to 5500 RPM, I was on a downhill ramp and gas pedal wasn't at 100% since there was some car next to me. From 5500 RPM and up, the road was exactly the same and the gas pedal was 100%.
Question:
3. The ignition 1 got high up to 23 at 5100 RPM , is this normal?
4. Since the road condition wasn't same as before, so is this log valid?
5. The target line show from 4000 RPM to 4500 RPM, the target was 11 ~12, but I set at 4000 RPM was 15psi and at 4500 RPM was 16psi. Why did this happen? Because the gas pedal wasn't at 100%?
6. Anything else you want to school me on?

Please check my understand about this:
Trim <45, if trim >45, increase FOL. FOL 70 is maximum for our car?
AFR need to be from 14.1~14.3. What should I do if it get higher or lower?
Ignition 1 if dip more than 2, I need lower the boost?

 

[TwinDad]

This is my map 2 log, here
FOL was at 60, temp outside was 80F, 93 Shell gas, stock DP, stock turbo, snow guard removed.
Can someone school me on the blue line (real boost) and the pink line (target boost)? In the map 2 above, why blue line boost higher than the target line?

This is map 6 with FOL 60, boost safety at 20, here
1500 11
2000 12
2500 13
3000 13
4000 15
4500 16
5000 15
5500 13
6000 13
6500 12
7000 12

My ignition 1 dip more than 2 at 4345 RPM, 6064 RPM so I lowered the boost at 4000 to 14.5, and at 6000 to 12.5. The highest number of the ignition line was 13.
Question:
1. Why in this map, the actual boost (blue line) lower than the target boost (pink line) while on map 2 the boost was always higher?
2. When you get a dip in ignition line, you lower the boost at that RPM?
3. I wasn't unable to get the actual boost near the target boost, what wrong?

This log was the run after I lowered the boost as described above, here
In this run, I ran on the lightly different road, from 2000 RPM to 5500 RPM, I was on a downhill ramp and gas pedal wasn't at 100% since there was some car next to me. From 5500 RPM and up, the road was exactly the same and the gas pedal was 100%.
Question:
3. The ignition 1 got high up to 23 at 5100 RPM , is this normal?
4. Since the road condition wasn't same as before, so is this log valid?
5. The target line show from 4000 RPM to 4500 RPM, the target was 11 ~12, but I set at 4000 RPM was 15psi and at 4500 RPM was 16psi. Why did this happen? Because the gas pedal wasn't at 100%?
6. Anything else you want to school me on?

Please check my understand about this:
Trim <45, if trim >45, increase FOL. FOL 70 is maximum for our car?
AFR need to be from 14.1~14.3. What should I do if it get higher or lower?
Ignition 1 if dip more than 2, I need lower the boost?

A couple degree dip at peak boost is normal. You just want title to start climbing again after that. Target in map 2 is additive. It's what your adding to the stock boost. Your actual will always be higher. When using absolute, you'll almost never hit the target in third gear. It's a point you shoot for to get to the desired boost you want though. I've never seen ign1 get to 23. Was this after you let off the gas? Is this in a log at 100% pedal? Your trims should stay below 45. Raise FOL in increments of 5 as needed. No one knows the high limit of the FOL. On running 80 with e30. Gas pedal not at 100% throws everything out the window. I couldn't get you datazap link to open. I'll try on the computer in a little bit

 

[Diggs24]

The second one is worthless as pedal was not 100.

https://datazap.me/u/bigbearbigbutt/map-6-16psi-max?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-11-21

https://datazap.me/u/bigbearbigbutt/map6-16psi-edit-1?log=0&data=1-4-5-11

Touch heavy up top IMO but I defer to the others on Golf logs.

 

[TwinDad]

Just looked once I got into work. You need to max at 4,000 and then taper, Maybe set 4,000 to 16, but then lower the 4,500-5,000 by 0.5. Above that might be ok, You're getting a timing hit around 4,500. I think if you fix that spot, it should advance some more. Your trims and afr are good.

 

[ketoi12345678]

Just looked once I got into work. You need to max at 4,000 and then taper, Maybe set 4,000 to 16, but then lower the 4,500-5,000 by 0.5. Above that might be ok, You're getting a timing hit around 4,500. I think if you fix that spot, it should advance some more. Your trims and afr are good.

If i want actual boost 17 at 4,000, I have to set 18? Simce the actual boost never hit the target boost

 

[TwinDad]

If i want actual boost 17 at 4,000, I have to set 18? Simce the actual boost never hit the target boost

It's trial and error. There is no exact formula. You may have to go to 19. You'll have to log, read the log, and then adjust. Page 1 explains a lot of it, and it's been outlined a few times in past posts. Lot's of reading, but its the only way you'll fully know what's going on. Realistically though, if you want 17 or more, you need a downpipe, otherwise your just making hot air and your timing will take a hit