MSS Adjustable Street kit-what do you guys think?

Cptnjosh said:

Based on the research/work of username Funks, I purchased a pair of Swift metric coilover springs. About the same height as the MSS Sport springs. Rated at 280lbs, which is close to the MSS Sport weight. Got some thrust sheets to make adjustments easier. I am very pleased with results.
But, if you already have the street kit and want to upgrade to the Sport kit this is a viable alternative to purchasing from MSS.

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My assumption is that your current setup now has the correct front springs (220 mm - which you've purchased out of pocket) and replaced the rear springs with the Swifts (280 lbs/inch - part number Z60-178-050). Are you still running the older rear 65MM ID adjusters (shorter length)? If so, what's your adjustment range now with the swift springs? Sounds like it's working good for you though, as the rear orange sports springs coupled with the old / 65mm rear adjusters didn't really allow one to adjust the rear higher than the front (when using the front 220mm springs).

The fully adjustable kit is basically a bad joke, as the 220mm spring has a max drop of 3/8 inch. It's best IMHO to buy the standard sports kit (non front adjustable) and just replace the rear orange springs with swifts.


MSS Sports Standard Ride Management System (11a) = 745.83 British Pounds

vs

MSS Street Standard Ride Management System (10a) = 495.83 British Pounds
+
Swift Z60-178-050 (comes as a pair) = 128.77 British Pounds (170$)

Saves one over 121.23 GBP (that's 160$). MSS@UK has better prices than their US distributor as well.

funks said:

My assumption is that your current setup now has the correct front springs (220 mm - which you've purchased out of pocket) and replaced the rear springs with the Swifts (280 lbs/inch - part number Z60-178-050). Are you still running the older rear 65MM ID adjusters (shorter length)? If so, what's your adjustment range now with the swift springs? Sounds like it's working good for you though, as the rear orange sports springs coupled with the old / 65mm rear adjusters didn't really allow one to adjust the rear higher than the front (when using the front 220mm springs).

The fully adjustable kit is basically a bad joke, as the 220mm spring has a max drop of 3/8 inch. It's best IMHO to buy the standard sports kit (non front adjustable) and just replace the rear orange springs with swifts.
MSS Sports Standard Ride Management System (11a) = 745.83 British Pounds

vs

MSS Street Standard Ride Management System (10a) = 495.83 British Pounds
+
Swift Z60-178-050 (comes as a pair) = 128.77 British Pounds (170$)

Saves one over 121.23 GBP (that's 160$). MSS@UK has better prices than their US distributor as well.

Click to expand...

Yes I am quite happy with the performance of the stiffer Swift springs which allowed me to attain the forward rake as prescribed by MSS. I do have the original 65mm ID adjusters with longer stems. The thrust sheets worked out great for balancing the rear out. Currently sitting at 25.75” front and 26” rear FG. I definately would recommend this upgrade path for Street kit users.
I have another .75” to go before I am at max drop in the rear, so I have the full adjustment range.

I agree that prospective buyers should get the Standard Kit (Street or sport), unless MSS revises the fronts. I am still trying to obtain the Standard fronts to no avail so far.

At this point I have a couple of options. 1) get a set of the Bilstein B8s and put the 205mm springs back on, and hope the 1” shorter shafts keep the strut bearings in place, which will give me full advertised adjustment range. Or 2) And this might be the more interesting option but I am unsure of the outcome. Get some OE Clubsport springs which are 15mm lower than NAR stock and 10% stiffer. I know I would be sacrificing some ride quality with these compared to the softer MSS fronts, but would I still retain the performance benefits of the MSS. I tend to think most of the secret sauce resides in the rear stacked arrangement, given that they use the same front springs across multiple MQB platforms with varying axle weights.
Which way should I go? I don’t know. These are suspension nuances at this point. I am mostly happy with the product. I just can’t get over the fact that I have a chunk of aluminum above my front springs that serves no purpose but to take up space and travel.

Opinions and advice is welcome. Best read the whole thread though.

Are you sure the B8 Bilstein NON-DCC front struts have a shorter shaft? On some platforms, the B8's are not shorter..

Thought about trading the fronts in with some other peeps who have the non front adjustables? Given that you have both sets of springs (MQB205, and MQB220), someone may want to swap the fronts set with you.

I don't like the Front Adjustables as well - ran into a couple of issues with it namely


1) Wrong springs (MQB205 -> MQB220)
2) Broke the plastic dust boot retainer on the strut.
3) Don't couple it with camber plates (Ground Control or 034 Dynamic+ Camber Plates) - you'll get all kinds of noises / thunks from the suspension.

I'm wondering if the the Non Front Adjustable springs has the same problems with camber plates ( noisy ) - my belief is that it's caused by all that extra mass (aluminum adjusters) which ends up transmitting / causing more noise. I went back to my OEM Top Hats and all the noises I had with both camber plates disappeared (used both 034 Dynamic+ and GC Camber Plates).

funks said:

Are you sure the B8 Bilstein NON-DCC front struts have a shorter shaft? On some platforms, the B8's are not shorter..

Thought about trading the fronts in with some other peeps who have the non front adjustables? Given that you have both sets of springs (MQB205, and MQB220), someone may want to swap the fronts set with you.

I don't like the Front Adjustables as well - ran into a couple of issues with it namely


1) Wrong springs (MQB205 -> MQB220)
2) Broke the plastic dust boot retainer on the strut.
3) Don't couple it with camber plates (Ground Control or 034 Dynamic+ Camber Plates) - you'll get all kinds of noises / thunks from the suspension.

I'm wondering if the the Non Front Adjustable springs has the same problems with camber plates ( noisy ) - my belief is that it's caused by all that extra mass (aluminum adjusters) which ends up transmitting / causing more noise. I went back to my OEM Top Hats and all the noises I had with both camber plates disappeared (used both 034 Dynamic+ and GC Camber Plates).

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I had the same issue with the 205 vs 220 springs and the noise with 034 top mount. I need the camber, so I wasn't willing to go back to stock, so I just traded the MSS springs out for the 034. I ended up having the same issues with 034, but they're far lower, stiffer, and less road compliant. Going over any bumps or expansion joists with the MSS or the 034 sounds like there's something broken on the car. I'm going to run it for a bit and see how it goes, but will likely go to either the bilstein dcc coils, the bilstein clubsports, or vwr tracksport with dcc delete.

In speaking with cptnjosh and reading all the MSS postings I bought the Swift springs and upgraded the rear of my Alltrack. Before there simply wasn't enough spring rate in the rear, it would clack loudly over bumps as even in a static position the coils on the springs almost touched.,even though the Swift springs are 7/8"'shorter on the bench compared to the orange MSS rear spring, there is no way they are coil binding like the MSS did. Ride is greatly improved, noise is gone,rear dropped about 1/2". I just cranked up on adjusters on rear. Like other posters write,,would I do MSS all over again? No, I would have gotten a high quality spring and been done with it. I don't need the adjustability really, they do ride plush though, handle side to side transitions much better than stock.,makes you realize how poor the factory Sachs stuff is.

Sumfuncomet said:

In speaking with cptnjosh and reading all the MSS postings I bought the Swift springs and upgraded the rear of my Alltrack. Before there simply wasn't enough spring rate in the rear, it would clack loudly over bumps as even in a static position the coils on the springs almost touched.,even though the Swift springs are 7/8"'shorter on the bench compared to the orange MSS rear spring, there is no way they are coil binding like the MSS did. Ride is greatly improved, noise is gone,rear dropped about 1/2". I just cranked up on adjusters on rear. Like other posters write,,would I do MSS all over again? No, I would have gotten a high quality spring and been done with it. I don't need the adjustability really, they do ride plush though, handle side to side transitions much better than stock.,makes you realize how poor the factory Sachs stuff is.

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Glad it worked out to your liking Sumfuncomet! The Swift springs made a substantial difference for me as well, and the rear end is much stiffer compared to the lower rated Street MSS rears. I also swapped out the fronts for the standard MSS fronts. They settled to 25 3/8” FTG so they ride lower than the adjustables at the lowest setting. They are completely silent and at the perfect ride height for me. I will keep this setup for the life of the car, and upgrade the dampers when the time comes.
Anyway, I think my overall experience might have been better if I just got the Standard Sport Kit to begin with. This is what I would recommend to anyone considering these. If you need adjustability look elsewhere.

Thanks Josh to you and Lordflexington, I can say the Koni SA is an awesome damper. If I had to do it all over again I would have just done a quality coilover. More money sure but with rebound and compression adjustability it would have been worth it. I am tired of taking apart the suspension so I am done with those mods now.

So the drop on the standard fronts are similar to what is advertised on their website?


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DaRock1459 said:

So the drop on the standard fronts are similar to what is advertised on their website?


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Yep. Stock is around 26.25” FTG, so mine dropped a good .75”+. The adjustable fronts with 220mm springs were 25.75” at the lowest. I ended up with 25 3/8” with the standards on the drivers side and 25.5” on the passenger side. They advertise 10-15mm drop for the standards but it appears to be a bit more from my experience.

Warning About MSS Springs

Just referencing a post from a friend of mine that posted this on Vwvortex. It's worth a read for those considering MSS.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9321927-A-warning-about-MSS-Springs

My experience with MSS

The rear didnt have enough spring rate in my Alltrack, I replaced rear with swift springs. The front is adjusted all the way down and it is still not low enough. I would never raise it up higher for any reason.
I have koni SA red shocks. The dive and squat that plagued the stock Alltrack is gone. Side to side transitions are nearly perfect. Car handles and drives great but sits too high. These springs don't really low the car very much.
If I had to do it again I would have saved up and bought KW V3 for their adjust ability. As of right now I have about 1300.00 in spring setup and I did all the install myself. At my age, 71, it is not likely Ill change them out again. BUT.......this spring and shock setup are light years above the awful factory suspension!

My complaints........ pricey, needed new rear spring to cope with wagons weight, the adjustable height property will in all likelihood never be used by anybody.

Sumfuncomet said:

The rear didnt have enough spring rate in my Alltrack, I replaced rear with swift springs. The front is adjusted all the way down and it is still not low enough. I would never raise it up higher for any reason.
I have koni SA red shocks. The dive and squat that plagued the stock Alltrack is gone. Side to side transitions are nearly perfect. Car handles and drives great but sits too high. These springs don't really low the car very much.
If I had to do it again I would have saved up and bought KW V3 for their adjust ability. As of right now I have about 1300.00 in spring setup and I did all the install myself. At my age, 71, it is not likely Ill change them out again. BUT.......this spring and shock setup are light years above the awful factory suspension!

My complaints........ pricey, needed new rear spring to cope with wagons weight, the adjustable height property will in all likelihood never be used by anybody.

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The track pack setup is the sport front spring and a much, much stiffer rear spring. That setup might have worked better for your specific needs.

On the V3 front, you're really comparing apples and oranges. 1300 for springs and dampeners, regardless of type, is a pretty decent price. Honestly, the adjustable perches are good for one thing, corner balancing. Height adjustability is a so-so kind of "feature". No one ever messes with it after one adjustment. With the V3 you're getting various forms of tuning, including height, rebound, compression, and they all effect one another. Take it lower, well then you need to adjust compression, then rebound to form a balance. In my experience, the average person has no idea how to setup a suspension with 3 forms of tuning, and the cars that get fitted usually don't handle better than stock. The spring/dampener combo keeps things comfy, stock like, and away from too much hands on for most. You also won't be rebuilding those koni reds every 30k miles when they leak, nor dealing with spring rates designed for abortions...

For the average person, not a track junkie, I think you've made a good call with your setup, and I'd recommend similar approaches for others.

No, it was 1300 for springs alone! That includes the Swift springs though. The shocks and struts were 585 plus new strut bearings, strut mounts and bolt kit for it all. So all told a touch over 2k.