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Is DSG technically a manual g/box

F

Finepics

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Hong Kong SAR China
Just getting to understand the workings of the DSG box so would appreciate some clarification. My understanding of an automatic is a box with a fluid torque converter, planet gears and sun wheels with brake bands to control gear shifts.

My understanding of the DSG is that it's a manual box but with an automatic clutch and automatic selector forks.

Can anyone explain this in more detail!
 
Talk-torque

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DSG is much more than a manual box with an auto clutch! A DSG box has two sets of gears on two shafts, 1, 3 and 5 on one shaft and 2, 4 and 6 on the other. Each shaft has it's own clutch. The gearbox has a controller, which decides which 2 gears need to be selected, based on the car's current parameters, throttle position, speed, etc. and which clutch engaged, the other being disengaged. This means that selecting the next gear, when required, is simply a matter of swapping which clutch is engaged.

Not easy to describe the workings of something as clever as a DSG box in a few words, but hopefully that gives you a flavour. Really worth Googling to get the full picture!
 
F

Finepics

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Hong Kong SAR China
Many thanks for that, I thought it might not be quite so simple! I've come from an Alfa Romeo 156 which had their Selespeed system, that essentially was a manual box with an automatic clutch actuator (the clutch itself was the same as the manual box) and automated selectors and luckily for me, unlike most people, worked extremely well!! Same thing was fitted to Ferrari F355 and Aston Martin Vanquish!!
 
Gerry

Gerry

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Hi Finepix, I can't improve on Talk-Torque's description but suffice to say....you're getting two gearbox's for the price of one.

If you were happy enough with Alfa's system you're going to love the DSG 7 speed.

Happy dreaming until your car arrives :)
 
F

Finepics

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Hong Kong SAR China
Thanks a lot for the info guys, much appreciated. It certainly is a technical tour de force!!

Why then did synthetic oil cause the Mechatronic failures - I read it was corrosion of electrical contacts but how did that happen?
 
Last edited:
Essjay

Essjay

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Now there's a guy with far too much time on his hands :D
And he didn't even stop to take his anorak off :rolleyes:
 
Essjay

Essjay

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Finepics said:
Thanks a lot for the info guys, much appreciated. It certainly is a technical tour de force!!

Why then did synthetic oil cause the Mechatronic failures - I read it was corrosion of electrical contacts but how did that happen?
Click to expand...

This was VW's official statement from the recall document:

"Problem Description
Over time, the internal gearbox lead frame may corrode due to certain gearbox fluid additives used in original gearbox filling. If corrosion deposits collect between electrical wiring, an electrical short in the power supply may result in blown gearbox fuses and the deactivation of the gearbox hydraulic pump or mechatronic unit. The driver will immediately be alerted by a flashing gear indicator warning lamp in the instrument cluster and the vehicle will lose motive power but can coast to a stop. Loss of motive power while driving may increase the risk of a crash.
All other vehicle systems, such as the engine, steering, and brakes, etc. remain unaffected and fully operational."
 
F

Finepics

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Hong Kong SAR China
Essjay said:
This was VW's official statement from the recall document:

"Problem Description
Over time, the internal gearbox lead frame may corrode due to certain gearbox fluid additives used in original gearbox filling. If corrosion deposits collect between electrical wiring, an electrical short in the power supply may result in blown gearbox fuses and the deactivation of the gearbox hydraulic pump or mechatronic unit. The driver will immediately be alerted by a flashing gear indicator warning lamp in the instrument cluster and the vehicle will lose motive power but can coast to a stop. Loss of motive power while driving may increase the risk of a crash.
All other vehicle systems, such as the engine, steering, and brakes, etc. remain unaffected and fully operational."
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I did read about the Australian woman that died as a result of this! Very sad that it takes something like that for them to acknowledge the fault.
 
F

Finepics

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_Blade) said:
She was driving a manual, i don't know why so many people ignore that fact and blame the DSG:confused:. Here is the coroner report on her cause of death.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/260114/volkswagen-golf-blame-death-melbourne-woman-coroner/
Click to expand...

Thanks for that clarification. The thing is though that the problems with the DSG and VW's denial until recently show just how arrogant big corporations are. I realise they don't set out to design a faulty product but when problems are highlighted it would be nice to see them fess up and deal with it straight away especially when safety is paramount!

I know it's slightly digressing but there's a similar issue with Nikon cameras that shows how dreadfully a company can deal with a fault - the D600 DSLR has a faulty shutter unit that allows excessive dust to accumulate on the sensor - Nikons answer was to release a D610 within less than a year of the 600, denying any faults and saying the 610 was released in response to customer feedback requiring a higher burst rate - which went from 5.5fps to 6.0fps, which everybody knows was total bollocks!! Nikon have suffered the inevitable customer backlash of a class action in the US and the Chinese govt banning the sale of the 600!! Now Nikon have finally acknowledged there is a problem and 600 owners are beginning to get the new 610 in exchange.

It's an example of how a companies reputation can be very easily and unnecessarily damaged - if only Nikon had recalled the 600 in the first place!!

Lets hope the mineral oil change does solve some of the DSG's woes and hoping that I have a trouble free car since a manual box isn't an option in Hong Kong!
 
Ian91

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I've had a recall on Friday from my dealer re my MK6 golf petrol 1.4 tsi DSG to change the oil in the DSG box which is a sealed unit. Apparently they have a tool for opening up the gearbox which I understand is normally sealed permanently. Hope things are sorted on the MK 7 DSG box!
 
M

mikef4uk

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United Kingdom
Ian91 said:
I've had a recall on Friday from my dealer re my MK6 golf petrol 1.4 tsi DSG to change the oil in the DSG box which is a sealed unit. Apparently they have a tool for opening up the gearbox which I understand is normally sealed permanently. Hope things are sorted on the MK 7 DSG box!
Click to expand...

As much as I think the DSG (or Audi Stronic (same thing)) is the way forward they still seem to be having issues and re-calls 6 years after I had mine, mine had two mechatronic units, the 3 Audi manual g/boxes before it, and the 4 manual Audi and VW gearboxes after it have all been hassle free, massive shame they are still giving trouble.................and would you risk one out of warranty :(
 
F

Finepics

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Hong Kong SAR China
Fortunately the Golf comes with a 5 year warranty on engine and drivetrain so at least it's covered for a reasonable time, and my cars not a GTI so I'm not going to be giving it too much of a thrashing! On the positive side I'm sure there are many DSG owners out there who've never had any problems, as usual with forums etc you tend to only hear from people that do have issues rather than from people that don't!!
 
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