312mm discs & pads options?

[golfdave]

Just want to know what people are running in this size as am upgrading from 288mm.

I think VW penny pinched on my car spec as the diesel version I think gets the 312mm discs as some motor factors think I should have 312mm instead of 288mm, but I have the lighter petrol engine & disc spec is correct.

My rears are standard 272mm (EPB) which is the same as the "R" apparently. I find that the rears are over braked (underused) & the fronts are underbraked (overused). I have modded VW cars for 20yrs+ & after a nice good 2hr drive home on twisty roads the fronts are very very hot after a 5mile cool down before stopping,. I have never had this happen in other VW cars to this extent. Car just had me in it & my rucsac/boots in so light load.

Anyway I understand that VW use the same splash shields & the same callipers (just drilled out for bigger piston), just I need to get a different VW bracket to move the calliper out & the 312mm discs.

I would like a disc with grooves as I have always had in past due to loads of small stones on roads here, & plain discs just get the stones stuck! I have used EBC in past but the last set I got on previous car, I was not impressed with.

So what currently made 312mm grooved discs & fast street pads with low dust properties have people had good experiences with??

 

[Geomets]

Just want to know what people are running in this size as am upgrading from 288mm.

I think VW penny pinched on my car spec as the diesel version I think gets the 312mm discs as some motor factors think I should have 312mm instead of 288mm, but I have the lighter petrol engine & disc spec is correct.

My rears are standard 272mm (EPB) which is the same as the "R" apparently. I find that the rears are over braked (underused) & the fronts are underbraked (overused). I have modded VW cars for 20yrs+ & after a nice good 2hr drive home on twisty roads the fronts are very very hot after a 5mile cool down before stopping,. I have never had this happen in other VW cars to this extent. Car just had me in it & my rucsac/boots in so light load.

Anyway I understand that VW use the same splash shields & the same callipers (just drilled out for bigger piston), just I need to get a different VW bracket to move the calliper out & the 312mm discs.

I would like a disc with grooves as I have always had in past due to loads of small stones on roads here, & plain discs just get the stones stuck! I have used EBC in past but the last set I got on previous car, I was not impressed with.

So what currently made 312mm grooved discs & fast street pads with low dust properties have people had good experiences with??

I may help you a bit. I have gone through some discs and pads but not in a VW. The best braking power and feel I had was in my previous vehicle, a Peugeot 207RC. I replaced with factory spec Tarox G88 discs (now I would have gone for the F2000, just for the looks, material is the same). You could go more OEM with the ATE "infinite loop" discs. I didn't have them, but had the plain face ATE with good results (in my first vehicle). With the ATE I think that you could never go wrong.
My mechanic (who happens to race in sprints and rallyies) always tell me that it's not the disc that makes the trick. As long as you go with a good company you're ok. The pads are the most important factor. The aforementioned Peugeot was treated with Carbone Lorrain RC5+ pads (μ=0,45 very consistent across the temperature board). Excellent results, they came to operating temperature after the first braking (in city driving) and they gave me excellent feel (accompanied with braided brake lines of course). That setup had it all. The combo never faded, and in the wet I though I was braking better than in the dry! That's because the grooved discs and the sintered pads are in another league in the water repellency compared to plain discs and organic (and dusty) pads.
You couldn't go wrong with the Ferodo Racing DS2500 pads. I used them too, pretty consistent pad with a pretty steady μ of 0,4 and the same amount of dust as the CL.
The best part is that these products are available in the 312mm disc setup. They are not in mine
I hope I helped you a bit.

 

[golfdave]

I may help you a bit. Tarox G88 discs (now I would have gone for the F2000, just for the looks, material is the same). ATE "infinite loop" discs. I didn't have them, but had the plain face ATE with good results (in my first vehicle). With the ATE I think that you could never go wrong.
Carbone Lorrain RC5+ pads (μ=0,45 very consistent across the temperature board). Excellent results, they came to operating temperature after the first braking (in city driving) and they gave me excellent feel (accompanied with braided brake lines of course). That setup had it all. The combo never faded, and in the wet I though I was braking better than in the dry! That's because the grooved discs and the sintered pads are in another league in the water repellency compared to plain discs and organic (and dusty) pads.
You couldn't go wrong with the Ferodo Racing DS2500 pads. I used them too, pretty consistent pad with a pretty steady μ of 0,4 and the same amount of dust as the CL.
I hope I helped you a bit.

Thanks..
I was looking at the ATE "Power discs" which are their infinite loop & the ATE low dust "ceramic" pads, but people appear to have brake squeal with this compination. Had Tarox on my first car 20=yrs ago, so I know them but just didn't know if still any good. Carbone Lorrain, heard of them, hmm, might look into those a bit more as I would like a low dust pad, which is what is usually marketed as a "ceramic" pad.

Nice to know it's still the pad which is the most important factor, just need to get the grooves for stone clearance & as your mechanic says a good build as I have noticed some brands have tighter machining tolerances on their discs than others, which is best to stop brake judder!

You should of heard mine the other day towards the end of a 2hr drive down twisty roads..grumble grumble grumble..yep that's too much heat & fade..

 

[Geomets]

Thanks..
I was looking at the ATE "Power discs" which are their infinite loop & the ATE low dust "ceramic" pads, but people appear to have brake squeal with this compination. Had Tarox on my first car 20=yrs ago, so I know them but just didn't know if still any good. Carbone Lorrain, heard of them, hmm, might look into those a bit more as I would like a low dust pad, which is what is usually marketed as a "ceramic" pad.

Nice to know it's still the pad which is the most important factor, just need to get the grooves for stone clearance & as your mechanic says a good build as I have noticed some brands have tighter machining tolerances on their discs than others, which is best to stop brake judder!

You should of heard mine the other day towards the end of a 2hr drive down twisty roads..grumble grumble grumble..yep that's too much heat & fade..

About tolerance. The Tarox screams that they have 15μm tolerance in their discs. In the ATE site they write with small letters that their tolerance is at 10μm... The Germans are in another league in manufacturing. ATE is a part of the Continental group by the way.
Anyway, the judder can be detected by our feet when there is a tolerance above 0,15mm. At 0,5mm it is pretty annoying (I don't remember where I read that, I have read so many things about...so many things in the last 2 years and my brain has become like a soup)

 

[golfdave]

About tolerance. The Tarox screams that they have 15μm tolerance in their discs. In the ATE site they write with small letters that their tolerance is at 10μm... The Germans are in another league in manufacturing. ATE is a part of the Continental group by the way.
Anyway, the judder can be detected by our feet when there is a tolerance above 0,15mm. At 0,5mm it is pretty annoying (I don't remember where I read that, I have read so many things about...so many things in the last 2 years and my brain has become like a soup)

I noticed that about the ATE discs too..., just wonder how hard the CL pads will eat the discs & dust?..

& I know what you mean about technical information overload....

Tackling my local council over LED streetlights at the moment...had to re-learn what I forgot about lighting design....

 

[Geomets]

I noticed that about the ATE discs too..., just wonder how hard the CL pads will eat the discs & dust?..

& I know what you mean about technical information overload....

Tackling my local council over LED streetlights at the moment...had to re-learn what I forgot about lighting design....

So, we are in the same brain situation.
About the wear of the discs, sintered pads are of course more aggressive to the discs. My G88 which were mounted in the same time with the CL pads started revealing a "lip" after about 20,000-25,000 km of quite a hard use (hard because most of these Km were done in/around the town and due to low speeds and cold friction materials I was braking with the abrasive friction) while the other part of Kms were twisty roads with plenty of downhill sections of 60-120 km/h (the setup didn't break a sweat in these parts). If your commute is long enough and slightly twisty and you get to the operational temperature of the brakes, then you'll get to brake the "right way", meaning using the adhesive braking. But again, if you find it aggressive, the Ferodo Racing pads (remember, the DS2500 compound, or FCP****H, not the DS3000) are the perfect "hybrid" compound, semi-metallic but working perfectly on the road, whether it's cold or hot outside.
A heads up: The organic (or resin) pads are dusty, but progressive and easy on the discs. BUT after a couple of years and due to the thermal cycles they go through, they tend to harden. This leads to 2 problems. The first is the poor braking force. The second is that they are getting hard on the disc. That's why I choose to buy semi-metallic/sintered compounds. They have the same braking force year in-year out and have the same effect wear-wise.
The choice is yours, enjoy the research, that's what I like doing before a purchase, probably it's a better experience than the upgrade itself

 

[golfdave]

Can't get the CL ones as the importer has to order 4sets at great expense. So decided to ordered the ATE powerdisc (stone clearing for grooves) & their Ceramic pads are mainly designed for plain, not grooved discs. Looked at the Ferodo DSPF & very similar spec to the standard ATE non ceramics, but place I was buying the ATE discs from only did ATE pads, so just ordered the standard ATE pads as a match for the ATE power discs. Also ordered the TRW calliper brackets for the 312mm conversion, 1/2 the cost of dealer price...

Better than OEM (still loads of brake brands state either 288mm or 312mm for my car so VW was fitting whatever they had in the box & I got 288mm....not now!!) about as good a "plain" road legal set up as I can find.

 

[Daner]

I have a TSI GT wagon on order and asked the dealer to request that it be fitted with the 312mm brakes instead of the 288mm. He just reported back that my DCC order insures that it will get the larger brakes. That makes me happy, but it seems like it would be helpful information to provide to prospective buyers ahead of time.

 

[breaking badly]

I'd wait and see what brakes your car actually comes with.
GTI and GTD, which run 312x25 mm on front, have different
swivels with 55 mm strut dia on front, compared to the 140
and 150 HP Golf with their 50 mm struts. They're quite easy
to distinguish as the 55 mm swivel is aluminium (silver) and
the 50 mm swivels/knuckles are cast iron (black and slightly
rusty). Just turn in your wheels and look.

 

[Daner]

Thanks. Seems strange that VW would spec different DCC struts for the different cars, but I'll check that when it arrives in August.

I'd wait and see what brakes your car actually comes with.
GTI and GTD, which run 312x25 mm on front, have different
swivels with 55 mm strut dia on front, compared to the 140
and 150 HP Golf with their 50 mm struts. They're quite easy
to distinguish as the 55 mm swivel is aluminium (silver) and
the 50 mm swivels/knuckles are cast iron (black and slightly
rusty). Just turn in your wheels and look.

 

[Daner]

I'd wait and see what brakes your car actually comes with.
GTI and GTD, which run 312x25 mm on front, have different
swivels with 55 mm strut dia on front, compared to the 140
and 150 HP Golf with their 50 mm struts. They're quite easy
to distinguish as the 55 mm swivel is aluminium (silver) and
the 50 mm swivels/knuckles are cast iron (black and slightly
rusty). Just turn in your wheels and look.

Haven't got the keys to the car yet, but I managed to get these shots on the dealer lot:

Eyeballing it through the wheel with a tape measure, the rotor diameter seems to be considerably closer to 312mm than 288mm.

 

[breaking badly]

Hard to tell which size the rotor is. These are the knuckles though:

aluminium:

steel:

 

[Daner]

Thanks for the photos!

My post has two photos. The upper one shows the right side knuckle on what will soon be my car, with the wheel pointed straight ahead and the camera looking up, back, and outward from just beneath the front lower section of the wheel arch. As I mentioned, I don't yet have the keys, so it is difficult for me to visualize it well from a different angle. Yours shows an aluminum left side knuckle seen from below and to the rear. Since the knuckle on my car also appears to be aluminum, I'm assuming that it is also gripping a 55mm strut and has a 312mm rotor fit to it (as the dealer said it would, because I ordered DCC.)

All of this would seem to make sense, if indeed the DCC struts are all 55mm. That would make the aluminum knuckles and at least 312mm brakes inevitable for cars with DCC, even if they are not the GTD or non-PP GTI.