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Intercooler

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
With a fan pointed at the car?

You would need a rolling wind tunnel to properly replicate the airflow... Does ECS have access to the HAAS wind tunnel in North Carolina? (the only one in the US)

Have you ever stuck your car out the window at like +45mph... you actually think a shop fan would recreate that? Will it vary in speed and such and be regulated to the correct wheel speed? Come on dude
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
MK7.5 GTI
Very well.


With a couple fans pointed at the car?


You understand if the conditions are the same (# of fans, ambient temp, etc) then the only difference in this hypothetical test would be the intercooler, so it's a perfectly valid way to compare intercooler performance.

Not arguing one way or the other on the results of the previous test btw, just saying that testing on a dyno isn't immediately an unreliable method.
 

Chogokin

Autocross Champion
Location
So Cal
Car(s)
GTI Sport | Audi A3
I bet that on the street...you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference between the IC's regardless of brand. George from Burger tuning mentioned that most of the aftermarket intercoolers will work similarly regardless of brand or mounting type. That $400 eBay Majesty bicooler is a good example. This is from a guy that's seen more data logs than most.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
I think you need to take that test with a grain of salt. It does not tell the whole story of how the intercooler will work.

I have the Neuspeed and I've been monitoring my IAT's for the past two years since I got it. So far...my temps always come down to within 5 to 8 degrees of what my amb sensor says. I've also always been able to hit my target boost numbers on the JB4. I saw this "test" and still picked up the NS IC.
Your experience doesn't contradict the results you're replying to at all. The Neuspeed cooling performance is very good and in the top of the group.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
I don't know why people are so sensitive about intercooler threads here. How many dozens of threads are there about springs, coilovers, tires, oil, etc? I don't think it hurts to have a fresh discussion every now and then since the aftermarket space isn't completely static, and sometimes there is new data 🤷‍♂️
 

the

Autocross Champion
Location
Alabama
Car(s)
GTI
I don't know why people are so sensitive about intercooler threads here. How many dozens of threads are there about springs, coilovers, tires, oil, etc? I don't think it hurts to have a fresh discussion every now and then since the aftermarket space isn't completely static, and sometimes there is new data 🤷‍♂️
Always been kinda weird, some people haven't realized they don't need to respond to every thread. At the same time, I can understand why the longhaulers might be a little miffed about new account xzy dropping in every 3 days asking the same questions that have been asked 10,000 times, and then disappearing forever.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
I don't know why people are so sensitive about intercooler threads here. How many dozens of threads are there about springs, coilovers, tires, oil, etc? I don't think it hurts to have a fresh discussion every now and then since the aftermarket space isn't completely static, and sometimes there is new data 🤷‍♂️
Because it makes the forum messy. People looking for info now have dozens of threads to sift through vs having all the information in one spot. It's not specific to intercoolers.
 

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
Very well.


With a couple fans pointed at the car?


You understand if the conditions are the same (# of fans, ambient temp, etc) then the only difference in this hypothetical test would be the intercooler, so it's a perfectly valid way to compare intercooler performance.

Not arguing one way or the other on the results of the previous test btw, just saying that testing on a dyno isn't immediately an unreliable method.

Lol i don't think even two fans will do it but yes I do get what you mean, its possible to get "some" data but it wont be any more useful unless they test all the intercoolers on a dyno the exact way, warming up the car on the dyno the same, and heat soak being replicated the same, the time between runs etc.... I think that's actually just as hard to do as the guy swapping in the intercooler and going out for a night drive with similar conditions as other days, drive around until oil is at ~220 or whatever your tune is set to and the begin doing the runs down the highway in a very standardized fashion, and then proceed to test... I think he would get better data due to the previously mention reason... better replication of the effect of airflow over the intercooler.... the baffles and the way the intercooler spreads the air inside, the way the tubes and fins vs bar and plate dissipate heat, etc... it wont be replicated right on the dyno with shop fans.
 

GTI_Owner

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
2016 GTI
I think you need to take that test with a grain of salt. It does not tell the whole story of how the intercooler will work.

I have the Neuspeed and I've been monitoring my IAT's for the past two years since I got it. So far...my temps always come down to within 5 to 8 degrees of what my amb sensor says. I've also always been able to hit my target boost numbers on the JB4. I saw this "test" and still picked up the NS IC.

ECS did a real test where they put the car on a dyno and actually put probes on the inlet and outlets of their FMIC and a competitor's stock location IC.

http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f...7_Front_Mount_Intercooler_Testing_Results.pdf
"I think you need to take that test with a grain of salt. It does not tell the whole story of how the intercooler will work." - This is true, though not how you are presenting it. The test represents performance under a specific set of conditions, different conditions could result in different results. Owners interested in racing at a drag strip have different needs than owners who track their cars and push them hard for 20+ minutes at a time. The results should be considered with the test conditions in mind.

"I have the Neuspeed and I've been monitoring my IAT's for the past two years since I got it. So far...my temps always come down to within 5 to 8 degrees of what my amb sensor says. I've also always been able to hit my target boost numbers on the JB4. I saw this "test" and still picked up the NS IC." - The results above show the Neuspeed cools very well, so you saw that and still picked up the Neuspeed? It seems you're referring to something other than the results shown above.

"ECS did a real test where they put the car on a dyno and actually put probes on the inlet and outlets of their FMIC and a competitor's stock location IC." - They're both real tests.

You didn't provide any rationale for why one test should be taken with a grain of salt and the other is "real", unless you believe the ECS probes are the reason, but that's not correct since both tests had temperature probes to measure pre and post IC temperatures.

What do you attribute the high inlet air temperature of the stock IC to in the ECS test? The temperature going into the IC was 120 degrees higher than the ECS FMIC. Why would the temperature being supplied to the IC be that much higher? The difference occurs at low engine speed when there is a negligible difference in pressure drop across the ICs. The test is supposed to be for IC temperature rise, but the starting condition of the stock IC was much different than the ECS FMIC.
 

Chogokin

Autocross Champion
Location
So Cal
Car(s)
GTI Sport | Audi A3
Your experience doesn't contradict the results you're replying to at all. The Neuspeed cooling performance is very good and in the top of the group.

Tell that to the people that will just bring up that flow test and try to tell me that the stock intercooler will work better than the NS.

I’ve seen it time and time again…people will theorize on how an intercooler will work just based solely on that flow test.

Was the efficiency test the one with the heat gun and living room fan?
 

FB-GTI

Ready to race!
Location
MO
Car(s)
VW GTI -> Golf R
Tell that to the people that will just bring up that flow test and try to tell me that the stock intercooler will work better than the NS.

I’ve seen it time and time again…people will theorize on how an intercooler will work just based solely on that flow test.

Was the efficiency test the one with the heat gun and living room fan?
Is your concern with the people that don't understand that there are a couple of considerations to make about intercooler performance or the testing?

The Neuspeed cooling result is on the first chart. The temperature x-axis says "Delta Temp. @ 6k RPM (degF)". I think that temperature was recorded using a car.
 

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
Tell that to the people that will just bring up that flow test and try to tell me that the stock intercooler will work better than the NS.

I’ve seen it time and time again…people will theorize on how an intercooler will work just based solely on that flow test.

Was the efficiency test the one with the heat gun and living room fan?

You do understand how low flow is a problem though right? Its not something that would be reveled just by looking at IAT...... it can do a great job and produce really nice and low IAT temps, similar to other top intercoolers but its robbing you boost, causing your turbo to work much harder, especially at higher rpms... and this is something that can be easily tested... (see below)

Even an intercooler that looks good in real world tests may not be the best if they have too low flow rate... The guy from that website even did a "study" of the relationship between CFM of the intercooler and how it affects your boost.... it may be robbing several psi from your turbo... only to gain a couple of degrees better IAT, so the turbo works much harder for minimal benefit.... its all a trade off... if you are seeing IAT and not pressure drop, that's only half the story

View attachment 249546

That NS intercooler can be robbing you a good 3-4psi compared to the others like the do88 or the wagner... but at least you got good IAT temps..
 

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD
Are we going to argue pressure drop? I have 5 PSI drop with my ARM FMIC according to mygolfmk7.com, wastegate duty had enough left over for me to crank up to 20PSI on my IS12. Can't see how a higher flowing turbo would fare any worse.

Or are we talking EGT turbo side because of pressure drop that we don't have a sensor to measure?

Not picking sides, just curious what the logic is here.
 
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