What's all the hype about LED lighting?

[dosjockey]

I had to rent a minivan this weekend and it was my first experience with LED ambient lighting. I didn't realize it until nighttime. I'm going to put my flame suit on now, because I know a lot of you like LED lights, but I have to be honest, I thought it was cold and harsh. There's something about the cool blue-white spectrum of the LEDs that just isn't natural (and scientifically studied and believed to be bad for you). I don't understand what there is to like about LED lighting other than it's brighter and uses less energy, which in the context of car ambient lighting, is a negligible issue. But the quality of the light is horrible. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like a nice, warm glow of an incandescent bulb, even if it's not as bright.

I bought a bunch of footwell LED lights for my GSW, now I don't think I'm going to bother installing them... unless VW specs a more natural light spectrum in their LED lights.

It took near half a century to make a tiny LED emit white light without a filter; and it wasn't exactly on the back burner. Now we have full RGB control and whatever color you like with miniature arrays... But not in headlamps.

These are large, complex, extremely difficult to cool, and chiefly: They're new. I don't think it's only marketing; but that of course plays a part.

Godzilla very quickly begins to reach a point at which it just can't support it's own weight. Costs rise tolerably for a while, and then BAM! You're at that point. White LEDs and output in relation to practicality have a similar relationship. They can rise smoothly in cost up to a certain output, and then all of a sudden they're too expensive to use, or haven't been developed yet. We'd never had a reason to even try on a large, consumer-level scale until recently.

As such, I rather think it's not been made feasible just yet, and they're just lucky the market likes blue-ass lights. I bet the lights on the Bugatti Chiron are pure white, though.

 

[ElectricEye]

Good to see an Architect who didn't "blindly" follow the latest trend...unfortunately a lot did follow it



Unfortunately higher K values no matter the source always include more blue wavelength light...…& most white LEDs are made by using a blue LED chip & placing a yellow phosphor coating over it....& this construction has huge amounts of blue wavelength light!!...

& the problem with blue wavelength light??……..its like daylight, & tells our brains to WAKE UP....the eyeball has a specific third receptor just for blue wavelength light & controls our circadian rhythm, & hormone, serotonin release....

You are correct its good for SAD sufferers..but you need to control when you sit in front of the light.....& not have it in every light fitting in the house & NOT use it 2hrs before bedtime!!..

3000K is the max you should be having in the house...which is higher than the old 12v halogen recesed downlighters...

Having 4000K or 6000K headlights is false also...

Your brain/eyes see higher K values as daylight, so switch the eyes mechanism to daylight....which means you cannot see into the unlit shadows as easily as before...& it makes a bigger contrast between lit & unlit..which looks good & the brain "thinks" the lit area is brighter....but its NOT....the amount of light in lumens (in many cases) in NOT greater than before...!!!...just your brain/eye is perceiving the bluer higher K value light as brighter due to the way it reacts to it!

I did technical architecture at Uni....I also have a very keen technical interest in LED lighting & the way we in fact are causing MORE light pollution with LED!!….blue light scatters more which is why police/fire etc use blue sirens....its called "Rayleigh scattering"....

I could write a whole thesis on this subject very easily...& I have been doing "stuff" for the past 4yrs since our stupid council fitted 4000K LED lighting everywhere in our town...with NO diming!...I had to get black out curtains as I had more reflected/bounced light shining into my bedrooms than the previous son/sox stuff!

I'd be willing to bet that the bluish wavelength is chosen by the automotive industry because consumers like the way it looks.

 

[cb1111]

Good to see an Architect who didn't "blindly" follow the latest trend...unfortunately a lot did follow it



Unfortunately higher K values no matter the source always include more blue wavelength light...…& most white LEDs are made by using a blue LED chip & placing a yellow phosphor coating over it....& this construction has huge amounts of blue wavelength light!!...

& the problem with blue wavelength light??……..its like daylight, & tells our brains to WAKE UP....the eyeball has a specific third receptor just for blue wavelength light & controls our circadian rhythm, & hormone, serotonin release....

You are correct its good for SAD sufferers..but you need to control when you sit in front of the light.....& not have it in every light fitting in the house & NOT use it 2hrs before bedtime!!..

3000K is the max you should be having in the house...which is higher than the old 12v halogen recesed downlighters...

Having 4000K or 6000K headlights is false also...

Your brain/eyes see higher K values as daylight, so switch the eyes mechanism to daylight....which means you cannot see into the unlit shadows as easily as before...& it makes a bigger contrast between lit & unlit..which looks good & the brain "thinks" the lit area is brighter....but its NOT....the amount of light in lumens (in many cases) in NOT greater than before...!!!...just your brain/eye is perceiving the bluer higher K value light as brighter due to the way it reacts to it!

I did technical architecture at Uni....I also have a very keen technical interest in LED lighting & the way we in fact are causing MORE light pollution with LED!!….blue light scatters more which is why police/fire etc use blue sirens....its called "Rayleigh scattering"....

I could write a whole thesis on this subject very easily...& I have been doing "stuff" for the past 4yrs since our stupid council fitted 4000K LED lighting everywhere in our town...with NO diming!...I had to get black out curtains as I had more reflected/bounced light shining into my bedrooms than the previous son/sox stuff!

Finally somebody who gets it - however - you may get expelled from this forum for not jumping on the "brighter is always better" bandwagon.
I do have one place in my house where I have "daylight" LEDs - in the mudroom by the door where we normally put our shoes and jackets on in the morning and where we want to "wake up"

 

[dosjockey]

I'd be willing to bet that the bluish wavelength is chosen by the automotive industry because consumers like the way it looks.

I think it's half and half. It's incredibly expensive to push for proper white, and the market just happens to tolerate blue at the moment.

 

[dosjockey]

Finally somebody who gets it - however - you may get expelled from this forum for not jumping on the "brighter is always better" bandwagon.
I do have one place in my house where I have "daylight" LEDs - in the mudroom by the door where we normally put our shoes and jackets on in the morning and where we want to "wake up"

Philips Hue, here. Every room in the building.

They've been around since the turn of the millennium; initially sold as PC gaming lights. The same arrays are still used in the bloom lighting units, actually.

I love those things; but they're very good LEDs, and nowhere near what a headlamp needs to be.

 

[Inka Orange]

With HID's, I always replaced bulbs when needed with a color temp as close to stock as possible, which I believe was around 4000K. I like the visibility that the white light provides, and was pleased with the color rendition.

Does anyone know the stated color temp of VW's LED headlights? They seem to give off a white light to me, as opposed to anything blue-ish. I'd be surprised to learn that they're much over 4000K.

 

[GTIfan99]

In my house, I want warm light color. If I'm trying to see at night while driving, bring on that cold and harsh light.

 

[cb1111]

In my house, I want warm light color. If I'm trying to see at night while driving, bring on that cold and harsh light.

But the problem is that you focus on stuff that is the brightest and nothing else. You also lose the ability to see Bambi in the shadows.

 

[golfdave]

In my house, I want warm light color. If I'm trying to see at night while driving, bring on that cold and harsh light.

Again back to how the human eye works...briefly..

The higher the K value of the your headlights, the more the human eye reacts to it like daylight & only uses the daylight receptors.....

Now because your eye PERCIVES the higher K value as "brighter"...in most cases it is NOT...the actual number of Lumens..ie the amount of light on the road..is the same or less.....

So your eye is being tricked...& its a well known lighting industry "scam"......

Because your eye perceives it as brighter they can lower the actual lumens, & use less power...which is more "eco".....

The downside is there is less light on the road, & MORE contrast between the lit & unlit areas.....& your eyes cannot switch between its two mechanisums….so you see LESS into the unlit areas than before.....so you now have "zebra stripping"....on the road (sharply defined pools of light alternating with really dark area).....

Where as before it was a lower lit area which had NO clearly defined edge...all because you eye was using more of the dark light receptors, & thus could "see" into the unlit areas more...thus the headlight would "bleed" into the shadows...

High K is an eco scam & should only be used in shopping malls, sports stadia etc....where there is NO requirement to see into shadows...


& P.S. I have 2700K LED everywhere in my house for the past 5yrs....

 

[jimlloyd40]

I'm staying with the 6500K I have in my house. They just help me see better because I'm old. ?

 

[GTIfan99]

Again back to how the human eye works...briefly..

The higher the K value of the your headlights, the more the human eye reacts to it like daylight & only uses the daylight receptors.....

Now because your eye PERCIVES the higher K value as "brighter"...in most cases it is NOT...the actual number of Lumens..ie the amount of light on the road..is the same or less.....

So your eye is being tricked...& its a well known lighting industry "scam"......

Because your eye perceives it as brighter they can lower the actual lumens, & use less power...which is more "eco".....

The downside is there is less light on the road, & MORE contrast between the lit & unlit areas.....& your eyes cannot switch between its two mechanisums….so you see LESS into the unlit areas than before.....so you now have "zebra stripping"....on the road (sharply defined pools of light alternating with really dark area).....

Where as before it was a lower lit area which had NO clearly defined edge...all because you eye was using more of the dark light receptors, & thus could "see" into the unlit areas more...thus the headlight would "bleed" into the shadows...

High K is an eco scam & should only be used in shopping malls, sports stadia etc....where there is NO requirement to see into shadows...


& P.S. I have 2700K LED everywhere in my house for the past 5yrs....

That's a great theory and sound understanding of how the human eye works, but it's just not that simple in practice. I drive multiple cars in my family and mine is the only one with LED head lights. They are far, far superior in practice, hands down.

No better test than our annual night autocross on a pitch black runway. My 2018 S was miserable and it was a struggle. The 2019 with lighting packages was like autocrossing in day light. Even with highbeams on with both cars.

It's no competition at all.

 

[golfdave]

I'm staying with the 6500K I have in my house. They just help me see better because I'm old. ?

& in the long term it will adversely affect your circadian rhythm, serotonin & hormone patterns, sleep patterns.....

You basically "self zombify"...

 

[golfdave]

That's a great theory and sound understanding of how the human eye works, but it's just not that simple in practice. I drive multiple cars in my family and mine is the only one with LED head lights. They are far, far superior in practice, hands down.

Not doubting the quality of the LED headlights....

Just bear in mind that when everybody has them on their cars & is blinding the cars coming the other way that you basically asked for it!...

Its a false sense of security....as you can't see into the shadows as easily..

 

[mk7_bk]

My 2 cent, on this old relic of a thread lol. So I agree with many points here. I believe that we all "feel" better with a nice warm light, like the ones in my kitchen right now. Here is something I havn't seen anyone say which I think is important. A brighter led light which has more of a cold tone is better for many reasons: longer lasting, more efficient, brighter light, more awareness (which I will get into now). So noone has said it, but yes in a car with all interior led lights it gives me (and probably others) the feeling of a heightened awareness. A car is not a toy and while driving you should be aware, bright lights keep you awake and focused, do you get where im going. A small point that was not really brought up but I think is important. In my GF new Jeep Limited Cherokee, it has all the led lights ect, driving in that im for sure more focused, verse and older car with very dim lighting and you cant see anything.

 

[jimlloyd40]

& in the long term it will adversely affect your circadian rhythm, serotonin & hormone patterns, sleep patterns.....

You basically "self zombify"...

It hasn't happened after at least 15 years but then I was a zombie prior to using 6500K bulbs.