WMI Help, please. About to give up... Devil's Own Meth Injection

[Quebster]

Hi all.

I'm about to give up on my DO meth kit. It's been extremely inconsistent. Any and all help would be sincerely appreciated.... I can't seem to figure it out.

Symptoms:

• Inconsistent.
• Meth barely dribbles out of line that connects to nozzle when it isn't working right
• When it works, it works amazingly
• I get it working, then seems like when I run out or low on meth, the issue starts again and isn't fixed until I mess with the lines and everything again, even after filling up
• I know when it's not working because I measure my IATs on my phone with a wireless OBDII transmitter
• Also I notice only a little has gone down when I fill it up to the top, whereas when it's working right I can go through a gallon in one track session.

Actions:

• I have replaced the entire system except controller. Controller lights up according to boost correctly so it looks like it's doing fine
• Replaced pump thinking it was pump, same issue occurs
• Replaced check valve with solenoid (last night) thinking check valve was issue, same issue occurs
• Cleaned all nozzles and meth tank (washer fluid tank)
• Installed in-line filter to make sure it wasn't the pump getting clogged up with junk
• Re-installed DO meth lines
• Re-wired, spliced and crimped electrical lines/connections

My pump is installed behind the bumper behind the passenger fog light, and I'm using my washer fluid tank for my meth tank, which is behind the driver side fog light. The only reason it's so frustrating is because I have to pull off my bumper to troubleshoot. That's what I get for trying to do a clean/stealthy install.

I plan to call DO about it Monday, I e-mailed them before and they said maybe I have air trapped in the lines. I see on their website for the pump, they say it needs to be "primed" before use. To prime it, they say to disconnect it from the check valve / solenoid and prime the system, then hook it back up.

If that's been the problem all along, I'll be the first to admit I'm an idiot. I just don't understand, why do I need to disconnect the line from the solenoid in order to purge air from the system? Shouldn't the air just push through? I just don't get it. Also I'll have an extra pump for sale

Any help would be great, I'll edit this post as we go.

 

[GTI Jake]

Sounds like they're 100% correct...try keeping the level up and you should avoid air in the lines all together.

Fluid pumps don't do well with air, in fact as a result of pump cavitation you can ruin the pump from repeatedly allowing it to ingest air.

 

[GTI Jake]

The fluid it's pumping is also the source of lubricant and cooling, top it off more often and you should be good. Don't forget how much fluid sloshes around. Ideally keep it above 1/2 full

 

[Quebster]

I understand what you're saying. But why can't it just push the air through? They say the pump can be run dry without issue. I haven't heard this be an issue before, surely I'm not the only one who runs out of meth and runs a bit of air through the pump here and there... why should that stop the flow completely?

Of course in a perfect world I will always have a full tank, but this isn't a perfect world...

 

[Quebster]

About the pump:

"3 chamber positive displacement diaphragm pump, self priming, capable of being run dry"

"Priming Capabilities: 8 feet (2.4 m)"

So, it can't prime if more than 8 feet from the tank, or what? I'm not sure how far the line is from the tank to the pump, but maybe it's too long to where it can't prime itself when it runs dry... Now that's a theory. Thoughts?

 

[GTI Jake]

I'm not sure specifically about that pump but in general a liquid pump will be damaged by excessive air.

Ik it might be frustrating, but I can pretty much guarantee based on what you've said that not letting the level drop too low with resolve the issue.

I'm no expert on why, however I do know that working air out of a system pumping liquid is a pain in the ass without a way to purge air out to fully prime all the way to the nozzle (fuel systems on jet engines and diesels being my experience in this). I'm guessing because air can be compressed and liquid can't, but I won't pretend to know if that's the exact scientific answer or not.

 

[nkresho]

I just checked the pics in your build thread. Is the solenoid (previously check valve) right before the nozzle? it should be, if it is not. The further it is away, the more meth you'll siphon out when you're not spraying. Then you have to "purge" the air next time you want it to spray, causing a delay. I've found that most solenoids and definitely check valves leak a little when they are closed anyway, so as long as it's close to the nozzle, it'll have more chance of just dribbling (separate issue from yours, I think).

Also, what was said above, you want the pump impeller to be the lowest point of the system. They can prime themselves, but it isn't instant. it takes a few seconds for the air to purge, and you're purging it against 25psi of positive air pressure, which can't help. If it's lower than the tank, gravity will keep all the air out, until the tank runs dry.

That 8 foot number may be vertical, like it can be 8 feet up and suck water through an empty tube from a reservoir below. But, I am pretty sure they don't account for air pressure on the output side of the pump.

What's your start and full boost #s on the controller? When you are inbetween, the pump works in PWM mode (pulsating on and off quickly). If you aren't at full spray, it will make the whole purging the lines thing worse. progressive controllers are not great for small turbos like ours (even the is38). We spool so quickly, it's more of an on-off regardless, because of the duration between, say, 10psi and 20. It's too short for a real ramp-up. By the time the pump builds pressure, you're already at 100% desired spray.

Meth gremlins are no joke. Stick with it. You'll get it sorted.

 

[Quebster]

Hm. I understand the reasoning behind having the solenoid / check valve as close to the nozzle as possible now. But yeah, that's besides the main issue at hand... the issue at hand is that no matter how long the pump runs, it won't push anything out. It's not priming at all really. I'm still not 100% sure on what I've done to get it to work in the past, I feel like I've had to disconnect from check valve and run the pump to get it going again.

For the record the solenoid is pretty much right after the pump right now.

The pump inputs are lower than the washer tank as well, so gravity works in favor of the pump.

I also understand that keeping fluid in the tank would probably "solve" the issue (seems like more of a bandaid fix to me) but as I've said, I can go through the whole tank in a single track session, so I'm not sure it's even possible unless I get a 2 gal tank.

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[GTI Jake]

Idk I had a 6 gallon tank on my Cummins and use Devils Own WM for 60,000 miles with no issues, but I also never let it run out

 

[Quebster]

Man 6 gallons! That's legit. I'm using the washer tank currently... just a tad less than a gallon.

My current plan is to move the pump next to the tank, as well as see how close I can get the solenoid to the nozzle. I'm not sure how close I'll be able to get it, would love to see some examples... I guess I can if I run everything up top, but I'm trying to keep it stealthy.


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[GTI Jake]

Being a truck it was a lot easier to find room for everything. The tank was mounted in the bed with the pump directly below it. Just had their basic pressure switch mounted in the intake horn right before the nozzle. Set for about 22psi, wastegate was set at 42psi. Just a single 720cc/min nozzle. You could use an air ride tank in the truck and re locate the pump back there with it. 4 gallon is a pretty common size and I'll bet you can pick up a used one fairly cheap

 

[Ricked_Em]

Man 6 gallons! That's legit. I'm using the washer tank currently... just a tad less than a gallon.

My current plan is to move the pump next to the tank, as well as see how close I can get the solenoid to the nozzle. I'm not sure how close I'll be able to get it, would love to see some examples... I guess I can if I run everything up top, but I'm trying to keep it stealthy.


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People though I was crazy but I have the solenoid between the washer tank and pump. Not ideal but it was the best spot I could find since I didnt have the right adapters to put it at the nozzle. Everything has been good in the last 6k miles or so. I have never let it run dry though. Ill shut off the meth flow once my indicator stays on (not the annoying low then not low signal). I wish I would have taken pictures of my set up haha. Let me know if you cant get it worked out and I'll pull my bumper cover and shoot some pics.

 

[Quebster]

The issue is def with the check valve/solenoid.


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[Quebster]

So the pump can handle air no problem, and prime itself. The check valve gets stuck any time there is air.

I'm not 100% on the solenoid yet, I think I might not have it wired well.


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[Quebster]

Solenoid solved problem. I didn't have it wired well the first time I guess, it never clicked open. ... to test, I ran the pump dry, put distilled water back in, and ran it again several times, never got stopped up. [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303] hopefully I'm done with my meth stuff for a good while...

Relocated my pump right next to the tank too, so now they're both behind driver side fog light. I wish I could've got some pics cause it looks real clean, but I broke my iPhone camera lens. RIP

Thanks for helping me brainstorm everyone.


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