Track TEMP DATA: IC and radiator combo data collection - ALL YOUR LOGS ARE BELONG TO US!

[Mini7]

I've still got a hat with your name on it waiting for you to come back!

I’d better sign up to earn it.

 

[Mini7]

Pushed a minor update today: I added vehicle speed to the general "snapshot" of every log where it was available (it scales nicely with all the temp data already displayed). Also rescaled all of the individual samples to display from 25-285 deg F.

It makes it easy to see the coolant temp increase happening partway down long straights and continuing until you let off.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17OmZvC_tlsmpFnLV45jxSy9Ocyry3ZaX/view

Example with @Mini7

View attachment 290567

My IATs bump up as soon as I come off the gas to brake. They come back down as soon as I get to back to the throttle.

 

[tigeo]

that's interesting about their 93 being e20, helps their numbers make some sense. how many of their tunes can you see in uniconnect?

I believe they spend a huge amount of time on their 2.5T files. I get the impression they gave their simos18 work to an intern and 99.9% of people don't track their cars, so it's really hard to find good relevant info besides what I see in your logs.

I have all of their tunes (b/c you get everything below the stage you have) so Stage 1 91/1+ 93, 2 91 and 93, 2 IS20 91 and 93, and 2+ IS38 91 and 93 (I think that's all of them!).

Unitronic certainly spends a ton of time on the Audi side and has spent a lot of time/money on MK8.

I have lots of logs on my datazap (most OBDEleven so not great) if you surf around looking at them. It's basically as we have discussed - moderate/conservative boost increases with more timing advance approaching, for the 93 files, what some tuners sell as E30 tunes. Running a few gallons of E can sort of most of the issues I've read about with folks hammering cars with Uni tunes and having problems due to KR-induced power cuts etc. which seems mainly on winter blends where the fuel essentially resists ignition less vs. summer blend. I have spoken to John w/Uni about it and that's where this all came from and got me sorted on what was happening/why/how to get it sorted. I have a friend who's daughter comes to the track with us with a MK7 GTI and Uni Stage 2, loves it/no issues but she isn't pushing it really hard.

I have zero interest in self-tuning using Simos Tools/dongle/OS bits (even though I'd be good at it/have interest in this)...too much time/effort to not produce anymore power as I'm fueling limited at this point. MPI/LPFP/flex is the next step past IS38 (or maybe add the smaller Garrett turbo) for the 1.8s and at this point, the car has ample power/fun for a daily and I have money to spend on consumables and a few others bits/bobs I've been wanting for it. Any other power upgrades, I'd likely just go United as they've got lots of these setup that way.

 

[scrllock]

I have spoken to John w/Uni about it and that's where this all came from and got me sorted on what was happening/why/how to get it sorted. I have a friend who's daughter comes to the track with us with a MK7 GTI and Uni Stage 2, loves it/no issues but she isn't pushing it really hard.

I have zero interest in self-tuning using Simos Tools/dongle/OS bits

This is what I was curious about, whether they're aware of what's going on. If their response is to add ethanol vs. fixing their shit, that's really lame.

I get the apathy towards self-tuning, I'm paying someone to tune on that stack, since the popular options for a downpipe tune are all garbage once you see how the sausage is made. UM... yikes. anyway, i'll shut up until I have actual logs to contribute here.

 

[tigeo]

This is what I was curious about, whether they're aware of what's going on. If their response is to add ethanol vs. fixing their shit, that's really lame.

I get the apathy towards self-tuning, I'm paying someone to tune on that stack, since the popular options for a downpipe tune are all garbage once you see how the sausage is made. UM... yikes. anyway, i'll shut up until I have actual logs to contribute here.

The fix is 1) flash to the 91 file or 2) run the 93 with about E20 which is what they advertise. My issue with it is that they should simply put a * there and let folks know up front that the tunes are particularly susceptible to issues on winter/lower quality fuels if you hammer on them...this avoids the forum/FB posts "Bro, I'm getting limp mode...why/help."

2) UM yikes? Are you serious? They seem to be the go-to on the wagons (at least) for anything begyond what I have so MPI/larger turbos. Many happy wagon-eers running their tunes.

In your opinion, what is a good tune? What issues are you seeing with the OTS tunes that give you concern? I get that custom is always better b/c the tune is built for your conditions which, IMHO, is mainly where the issues are i.e. fuel. If I could have a custom summer and winter tune that would be great...I mean I do...91 for winter, 93 for summer but you can certainly create custom files that were better. At some point, this is OTS life, you calbirate a car on a dyno in XYZ location with ABC fuel with a tuning philosophy you buy into and you push that out to everyone that has a variation in those two and you get some issues which ok for some, not for others but on average, most folks can run the OTS stuff safely without drama. End of my comments.

 

[scrllock]

The fix is 1) flash to the 91 file or 2) run the 93 with about E20 which is what they advertise. My issue with it is that they should simply put a * there and let folks know up front that the tunes are particularly susceptible to issues on winter/lower quality fuels if you hammer on them...this avoids the forum/FB posts "Bro, I'm getting limp mode...why/help."

2) UM yikes? Are you serious? They seem to be the go-to on the wagons (at least) for anything begyond what I have so MPI/larger turbos. Many happy wagon-eers running their tunes.

In your opinion, what is a good tune? What issues are you seeing with the OTS tunes that give you concern? I get that custom is always better b/c the tune is built for your conditions which, IMHO, is mainly where the issues are i.e. fuel. If I could have a custom summer and winter tune that would be great...I mean I do...91 for winter, 93 for summer but you can certainly create custom files that were better. At some point, this is OTS life, you calbirate a car on a dyno in XYZ location with ABC fuel with a tuning philosophy you buy into and you push that out to everyone that has a variation in those two and you get some issues which ok for some, not for others but on average, most folks can run the OTS stuff safely without drama. End of my comments.

taking it to PMs, getting o/t

 

[dood.]

Fresh log for the data guru

User: dood.
Vehicle: 2017 VW GTI S
Trans: DSG
Track: The Ridge Motorsports Park (full)
Tune: EQT OTS Stage 2 ECU + TCU, 91 octane tune running 92 octane fuel
Turbo: IS20
Intercooler: IE V2 SMIC
Downpipe: MAP Catted
Radiator: Stock

Logged oil temp does not match the dash (modelled).

Best lap of the session was #2 with a 2:04.89. Out-lap will look funny in the log, a Camaro spun in front of me so came to a stop.

 

[DerHase]

I've been slow pushing the updates online but there are a bunch more added including the one from @dood. and like 4 logs from Fastivus (everything on the Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17OmZvC_tlsmpFnLV45jxSy9Ocyry3ZaX/view?usp=sharing

I'll have to add my own from VIR Oktoberfast and @tigeo 's from VIR with the Audi club which I'll do whenever I get time. Currently looking at restructuring how all the logs are stored, maybe into a SQL server of some kind so that I can run queries automatically on entire logs to get the info needed for the visuals. Will make it so I don't need to manually look at every log and guesstimate where to take the highest average from, and then spit out min/max/avg automatically. Need to noodle on it some, but automating the process will make it better for pulling other data points as well.

 

[yakboyslim]

I was a little slow, but still my average boost was pretty much in family with you and tigeo.

I could probably do well with a better intercooler, but my coolant and oil temps still win, so I'm not gonna mess with the stack. Don't want to break the magic.

 

[tigeo]

I was a little slow, but still my average boost was pretty much in family with you and tigeo.

I could probably do well with a better intercooler, but my coolant and oil temps still win, so I'm not gonna mess with the stack. Don't want to break the magic

How much/frequently you are on throttle (%TPS) is directly proportional to the coolant and oil temps.

 

[yakboyslim]

How much/frequently you are on throttle (%TPS) is directly proportional to the coolant and oil temps.

Very true, but since I'm not stock turbo my TPS is not the same as anyone else's TPS.

For instance the Fastivus logs I have a lower TPS than you, by a fair bit, but actually a higher average boost.

Also, don't know how much it tweaks the data @DerHase but looks part of my cool down lap is in that data.

 

[tigeo]

Very true, but since I'm not stock turbo my TPS is not the same as anyone else's TPS.

For instance the Fastivus logs I have a lower TPS than you, by a fair bit, but actually a higher average boost.

Also, don't know how much it tweaks the data @DerHase but looks part of my cool down lap is in that data.

TPS should be TPS - that's a @DerHase question though as I'm not sure on that...you are either foot on the floor/hammer down or not. W/r to boost - my tune only peaks around 21.5. Boost isn't a primary way to look at "how hard you're driving" to compare 2 cars. I'd say overall speed - what were you lap times like?

 

[yakboyslim]

TPS should be TPS - that's a @DerHase question though as I'm not sure on that...you are either foot on the floor/hammer down or not. W/r to boost - my tune only peaks around 21.5. Boost isn't a primary way to look at "how hard you driving" to compare 2 cars. I'd say overall speed - what were you lap times like?

TPS is the throttle position, which means that takes out the equation of different pedal maps. However TPS 80% (WOT) is 21.5psi tapering to something on yours. It is 27psi flat to redline on mine. There may be times where I am only on partial throttle, but actually higher power than WOT on other cars.

Take that concept to an extreme, and imagine you tune a car for 0 boost. You could drive the whole course WOT most of the time and come back with really high TPS%, but negative average boost. And we would all agree that is less thermally stressing.

I actually didn't keep track of lap times, but assuming my line wasn't grossly different than yours it should be off by the same proportion as the average speed (58 mph for me and 61 mph for you). I'm not arguing that I wouldn't see higher temps if I drove harder, just saying that when looking at the data average boost needs to be considered along with TPS due to my setup. It's never gonna be apples to apples, but if you looked only at TPS it would be easy to throw my data away as "too slow to matter". I think the fact that my average boost is in the same ballpark as you and DerHase probably means I am putting a similar thermal load (due to car mods), but the lower TPS and slower average speed mean I am slower (need the driver mod).

 

[tigeo]

TPS is the throttle position, which means that takes out the equation of different pedal maps. However TPS 80% (WOT) is 21.5psi tapering to something on yours. It is 27psi flat to redline on mine. There may be times where I am only on partial throttle, but actually higher power than WOT on other cars.

Take that concept to an extreme, and imagine you tune a car for 0 boost. You could drive the whole course WOT most of the time and come back with really high TPS%, but negative average boost. And we would all agree that is less thermally stressing.

I actually didn't keep track of lap times, but assuming my line wasn't grossly different than yours it should be off by the same proportion as the average speed (58 mph for me and 61 mph for you). I'm not arguing that I wouldn't see higher temps if I drove harder, just saying that when looking at the data average boost needs to be considered along with TPS due to my setup. It's never gonna be apples to apples, but if you looked only at TPS it would be easy to throw my data away as "too slow to matter". I think the fact that my average boost is in the same ballpark as you and DerHase probably means I am putting a similar thermal load (due to car mods), but the lower TPS and slower average speed mean I am slower (need the driver mod).

Firstly - this wasn't intended to say you were "too slow". My point here is that TPS is a proxy for RPM, foot to the floor more than someone else will have the engine at a higher RPM and generate more heat regardless of the boost values. I however understand your points - you are making more power/more boost at lower RPMs than me at WOT. You also have a manual so the DSG isn't pumping heat into the cooling system like on our cars. You also have venting which should help keep coolant temps (and oil) down a bit vs. me. There is a lot of data here so the boost question should be able to be analyzed a bit more to see how it plays in but I though @DerHase already did that?

 

[yakboyslim]

Firstly - this wasn't intended to say you were "too slow". My point here is that TPS is a proxy for RPM, foot to the floor more than someone else will have the engine at a higher RPM and generate more heat regardless of the boost values. I however understand your points - you are making more power/more boost at lower RPMs than me at WOT. You also have a manual so the DSG isn't pumping heat into the cooling system like on our cars. You also have venting which should help keep coolant temps (and oil) down a bit vs. me. There is a lot of data here so the boost question should be able to be analyzed a bit more to see how it plays in but I though @DerHase already did that?

Oh, I wasn't taking it that you or anyone else was calling me slow (I was calling me slow, but I wasn't really pushing at Fastivus)

I agree that manual probably helps a fair bit. My only point really was to say that I think my boost was high enough that I consider myself lucky to have decent temps. I think hood venting helps, but I'm convinced the hood vents only work as well as they do because I have a stock radiator and a "just decent" intercooler. I think if I had a beefier intercooler, or that CSF rad, not enough air would go through the stack, with or without hood vents.