Seat upgrades & safety rules

[golfdave]

Correct the Wingbacks had noise due to being 2pc GFK and the way the covers were held in.

I had Ash from Awesome GTI Store help be the middle man in a deal between a private seller in the UK and in turn he forwarded me the seats to California, they were almost brand new out of a Scirocco R.

I can dig up photos of Bennys setup his tail straps were attached like mine.

I forgot that Recaro did the Poles in a road approved version......I thought it was just the "classic" & the fancy "Podium"..

I couldn't remember the rear bottom section of the Weichers half cage...I forgot that it had the bottom bar as thats for the connections for the cage to the OEM loops for the child seats..if I remember correctly...

I get the occasional items from Awesome GTI......I remember years (decades) ago when they first started out..now they have a big facility...I'm currently waiting on an ECS "top bar only" rear brace from them!...

 

[Track R]

@golfdave ....if it's safe for Volkswagen AG and Benny it's safe for me.

 

[scrllock]

If you look carefully at the coloured diagram with key that I posted above...you'll see that the front seat rails bolt to the red coloured steel..this being the 2nd strongest steel used in the MK7 Golf....There is also the red steel bars that go between the left & right seat rails on the floor pan..this is part of the crash structure & one of the strongest parts of the car..

The rear of their half cage attaches high up on the wheel arch & I think its to the seat back loops on the wheel arch...coloured yellow & again this is stronger than the surrounding steel. I also think that they have a couple of floor attachments where the rear seatbelts bolt to the floor pan under the backrest...& again this is coloured in purple & blue....

Wiechers do know what they are doing, & make lots of motorsport stuff & stuff for the teams etc.. Yes it may not be a full on weld in half cage thats approved by your series, but it is certainly not just a "show cage"...

I've seen weld or bolt in half cages which although look right when you actually look at the steel strengths of the cars bodyshell, you find out that the cage is not attached to the strongest sections!...

I'd run a Wiechers as a half cage & get it approved (they do say phone them for FIA & DMSB approval on a cage)....other than that get a full cage...unless the motorsport specifics a special standard...

It doesn't matter, if you show up to tech with a colored photo of your car and tell them "oh well the 'ring record was set with this bar" the only question they'll ask is "are there backing plates on the other side?". sketchier HPDE groups won't even look or just let you self-inspect, in which case it's likely usable, but again, my point is that people putting roll bars/cages in their cars here are either building show cars or aiming to compete, and it is not usable for competition.

if you call them and ask for FIA approval, you will get a custom-made bar, not the the clubsport model.

global time attack requirements, for example:

and FIA states you can mount it to the unibody, as long as you follow these requirements:

 

[golfdave]

@golfdave ....if it's safe for Volkswagen AG and Benny it's safe for me.






View attachment 296989View attachment 296990View attachment 296991

Now if could justify a second "toy"...it would be a Clubsport "S"....with the Weichers cage..& those belts...nice lightweight life4po battery...MK8 Golf rear arm aero covers...plus the other missing underbody aero covers/engine tray.....OEM 4pots (Audi or the Macan) & most likely remove the plastic gear selector linkage in the cabin & replace with either a CAF selector or a MK6 all metal version..

Its just begging to made into a proper "Clubsport"..with very little effort...VW got so close & then bailed at the last minute...& many of the parts are in their own parts bin!...& Porsche has similar equipment in the GT3 RS etc...

 

[golfdave]

It doesn't matter, if you show up to tech with a colored photo of your car and tell them "oh well the 'ring record was set with this bar" the only question they'll ask is "are there backing plates on the other side?". sketchier HPDE groups won't even look or just let you self-inspect, in which case it's likely usable, but again, my point is that people putting roll bars/cages in their cars here are either building show cars or aiming to compete, and it is not usable for competition.

if you call them and ask for FIA approval, you will get a custom-made bar, not the the clubsport model.

global time attack requirements, for example:

View attachment 296996

As I said before if you enter events you have to fit stuff as per their specifications/requirements.....

Different countries, different requirements, even if for a similar event...

If they want full plates behind, then you fabricate up & add those to the Weichers cage..

either that or just fit a full on complete cage..might as well if you're going through the bodywork...

 

[Track R]

It doesn't matter, if you show up to tech with a colored photo of your car and tell them "oh well the 'ring record was set with this bar" the only question they'll ask is "are there backing plates on the other side?". sketchier HPDE groups won't even look or just let you self-inspect, in which case it's likely usable, but again, my point is that people putting roll bars/cages in their cars here are either building show cars or aiming to compete, and it is not usable for competition.

if you call them and ask for FIA approval, you will get a custom-made bar, not the the clubsport model.

global time attack requirements, for example:

View attachment 296996



and FIA states you can mount it to the unibody, as long as you follow these requirements:

View attachment 297003

I'm referring to track day events every tech, region and group are different which none are certified FIA techs so fuck em.

 

[scrllock]

I'm referring to track day events every tech, region and group are different

right, and if you can pass SCCA/NASA safety reqs you're set for 99% of events in the US. so why half-ass a significant, semi-permanent mod to the car when there are better options?

 

[Track R]

As I said before if you enter events you have to fit stuff as per their specifications/requirements.....

Different countries, different requirements, even if for a similar event...

If they want full plates behind, then you fabricate up & add those to the Weichers cage..

either that or just fit a full on complete cage..might as well if you're going through the bodywork...

no need just order a Wiechers that through bolts there few hundred euro more

 

[scrllock]

no need just order a Wiechers that through bolts there few hundred euro more

the only thing that's better at than a cheap autopower bar at is removing your money

 

[Track R]

right, and if you can pass SCCA/NASA safety reqs you're set for 99% of events in the US. so why half-ass a significant, semi-permanent mod to the car when there are better options?

I agree with you to a point, this bar was solely bought due to my past experience and at the time I thought I would not keep my Golf so I did not want to molest it in case I traded or sold it.

I will replace it for 2024 with a permanent version

 

[golfdave]

no need just order a Wiechers that through bolts there few hundred euro more

Knowing Wiechers i though they would offer that option but could not find the info just the "phone us for FIA"...

 

[Track R]

Knowing Wiechers i though they would offer that option but could not find the info just the "phone us for FIA"...

Wiechers makes multiple types of bolted and welded half and full cages for the MQB chassis,they supplied the cage for the Golf 6 and Scirocco Cup cars among others.

 

[scrllock]

I agree with you to a point, this bar was solely bought due to my past experience and at the time I thought I would not keep my Golf so I did not want to molest it in case I traded or sold it.

I will replace it for 2024 with a permanent version

don't get me wrong, the clubsport bar is very nice, and I would likely use one if I were in the EU. for a welded cage I would definitely get one custom-made, though.

 

[DerHase]

Just adding that the Schroth harnesses are not “approved” by anybody. There are a list of FMVSS requirements which they pick and choose which are applicable to their 4pt harnesses. They leave out the full scale high speed impact testing FYI. Which is prob what you want to know when doing 140mph down a straight.

It’s like “DOT approved brake hoses”. Nobody is fucking testing those to get an “approval”. Things are manufactured to “meet the specifications” which you have to take their word for.



Also the ASM harnesses should not be used with a HANS:
https://www.schrothracing.com/post/anti-submarining-technology

The asm® system on all SCHROTH Rallye and QuickFit belts - excluding the new QuickFit Pro - is not compatible the with HANS®.

Only exception is the Quickfit Pro.

Factory belts or whole enchilada with cage, (edit FIA seats, (/edit)and 5/6pt harnesses.

 

[golfdave]

Just adding that the Schroth harnesses are not “approved” by anybody. There are a list of FMVSS requirements which they pick and choose which are applicable to their 4pt harnesses. They leave out the full scale high speed impact testing FYI. Which is prob what you want to know when doing 140mph down a straight.

View attachment 297054

It’s like “DOT approved brake hoses”. Nobody is fucking testing those to get an “approval”. Things are manufactured to “meet the specifications” which you have to take their word for.



Also the ASM harnesses should not be used with a HANS:
https://www.schrothracing.com/post/anti-submarining-technology



Only exception is the Quickfit Pro.

Factory belts or whole enchilada with cage and 5/6pt harnesses.

I think Schroth & Wiechers have enough first hand experience of designing, testing, & building harnesses & roll cages in motorsports to know what to do that will actually work & save your life.. Most big manufacturers will make a car down to the cheapest price they can & do everything to "just" pass the safety requirements..all to save costs....Making a product to solely meet a certain "specification" doesn't mean its actually safe in the real world....cue the inadequate design/test criteria on flammable exterior cladding which was the main contributing factor in the Grenfell tower fire/disaster..,...the product passed the testing as required ..!!!

I would trust all the above Schroth ASM (anti-submarining) 4 points & Wiechers half cage in a daily & even for track use on a car that is used for fast laps of the local track, or in certain events which would allow it......over here quite a few of the amateur club events would be ok with it..

Over here we get factory road legal cars with half cages & a combination of 4, 5 or 6 point harnesses, & usually the 5 or 6 point harness options are only with bucket seats (i.e. fixed back)..ie Renault & Porsche amongst others (besides Ariel (has 4 points as standard fit), Caterham, Lotus, etc.)....It's a good halfway house better than basic normal car factory set-up...more for a daily...not as good as a full on weld in cage & 6 point harnesses...which then limits the car is solely being a track day car only & not for a daily....

I wouldn't run 5 point harnesses...a central crotch strap is reminiscent of the old Whillans climbing harness...been there, done that!..... .....& if you fit 6 point harnesses you should only be using a fixed back seat.....& you really need a full cage as you have to have the seat under bar to bolt the two crotch straps to...

Side note:- Although in a different sphere, I know safety systems, & high speed impacts on humans (I used to sell, advise, & specify industrial rope access & mountaineering equipment & sign the certs....so groups such as wind farm builders, tree surgeons, to mountain rescue, to military special ops etc., right through to everyday climbers)