KawaZukiVdub
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Latveria
How are you liking the Rowe? I was thinking about picking that up myself, or Liqui Moly. What is the stock oil weight? I wasn't looking at the Motul because the oil is just too heavy.
7
Motul Gear 300 transmission fluid
- Thread starter russiankid
- Start date
How are you liking the Rowe? I was thinking about picking that up myself, or Liqui Moly. What is the stock oil weight? I wasn't looking at the Motul because the oil is just too heavy.
railroader
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Yuma Arizona
Stock is like 75 I believe i read somewhere, vw dont give an actual weight if I remember correctly, I like its oem like.
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KawaZukiVdub
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Latveria
I will more than likely go for the Rowe... I looked at the Liqui Moly and it is the same weight as the Motul 300 so the same issues will arise eventually..
Thanks Railroader!
railroader
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Yuma Arizona
russiankid
Drag Race Newbie
- Location
- PA
I stumbled upon it through Amazon. I did some further searching and its a very popular oil in Europe, produced in Germany. It meets a lot of manufacture specific PN's including a list of VW ones. They do also make MTF3 which is a 75W oil only. However, I only found on there Dutch website that it meets the MK7 GTI spec for the MTF3, the USA website did not list and it did not specify GL-4. The MTF2 is a 75W80 GL-4 specific fluid, it meets a lot of VW spec, but it does not list the MK7 PN directly. However, since it is 75W80 GL-4 full synthetic, i decided to try it and plus it's on prime.
I have read that factory VW stuff is 6.6cst and Ravenol is around 7.7cst I believe, so slightly thicker than factory but pretty close.
Last edited:
yirayira
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Car(s)
- 2015 GTI SE
Fuchs G-052-171-A2 is the OEM fill and 75w GL-4 spec
That's the kind of info I'm looking for!
Thanks!
I'll also research it a bit, but considering how many specs it meets I may just buy a few qts for when I have my clutch replaced eventually.
russiankid
Drag Race Newbie
- Location
- PA
railroader
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Yuma Arizona
Some info on gl-4 and gl-5
There is a lot of confusion about gear oils and the API classifications. In this paper I will try to
differentiate the two oils and clear up the mysteries that are flying all over the internet. It is extremely
common, or normal, for all GL-5 oils to claim they cover the API GL-4 requirements for gear oils. This
is a true statement. Does that make them satisfactory for synchromesh or synchronized transmissions?
NO! They meet the GEAR OIL specifications, not transmission oil specifications. The API GL-4 and
GL-5 categories do not mention or have anything to do with transmission synchronizers.
History:
The gear oils of a few decades ago had lead additives that were effective at wear reduction, but not very
good for the environment. A long time ago they began to be replaced by gear oils with a phosphorous
additive (in itself a decent anti-wear additive) with active sulfur to grip hold of the gears and create a
very solid sacrificial layer of material that could be worn off, thereby protecting the gear surface.
Eventually it was discovered that the active sulfur was causing corrosion of brass and other soft metals
used in differentials and transmissions.Somewhere around 25 years ago a deactivated or buffered sulfur was developed that would react with
the phosphorous to create the protective/sacrificial layer in the conditions created in the gear boxes
(temperature and pressure) without being corrosive to the brass, copper, etc. This additive system is
used in most gear oils today.
The problems arise when we try or need to use the same product in the transmission that we use in the
differential. Many people have called oil companies and been told by the “Techs” that answer their
questions that their oils have buffered sulfur and therefore are not corrosive to yellow metals, so their GL-5 oils can be used with brass components. While that answer is totally correct, it does not address
the question asked: Can I use your GL-5 in my synchromesh transmission?
Let’s take a look at the API GL-5 rating. It is a rating for EP (Extreme Pressure) protection. The higher
the EP protection, the higher the GL category. In the mid 60's, Ford needed better protection in their
pickup trucks and GM developed the front wheel drive Oldsmobile Toronado that had a differential
with a very high angle of contact for power transmission to the wheels so a higher category was
developed (later to be called GL-6) to offer the protection needed. This level of protection can still be
claimed, but can no longer be tested since the Toronado rig used to test it is no longer available. (Note:
The 1966 and 1967 Toronados had sun gears between the axle shafts instead of spyder gears and a very
high offset, while suffering from the high temperatures of the engine compartment and very high
pressures.) This is why you will frequently see GL-6 listed as “obsolete”. The test is obsolete, not the
car or its needs. Many other high performance cars continue to spec this level of EP performance.
In normal operation, the sulfur/phosphorous additive forms a black sacrificial coating on the gears and
anything it touches with a little pressure and temperature. As the gears turn, instead of wearing, the
sacrificial coating of additives is peeled off or worn off. This is normal and acceptable in all steel gears.
But when one or more of the surfaces is brass or another soft metal, the sacrificial coating is stronger
than the base metal, and instead of just peeling off, it takes with it a few microns of brass that it is
bound to.A traditional GL-4 gear oil of any given viscosity has about ½ of the level of sulfur/phosphorous
additive that would be in the GL-5 product, so the bond is not as strong, and therefore can be peeled off without peeling a layer of brass (or less brass). This means that the GL-4 product provides a little less
extreme pressure protection, so in the differential of a high-powered car, it would not be the ideal
product in the differential. To understand this need we should be aware of the fact that the differential is
where the final torque is applied to the wheels (in most applications).
But in the transmission, we should consider two factors:
• Due to the fact that the differential applies the final torque, normally we do not need the full EP
protection in the transmission where less torque (about 30%) is applied.
We need to be able to break the EP protection to stop the spinning of the gears long enough to
mesh them or synchronize them.
When we use a GL-5 product in a transmission that requires GL-4, we normally find 2 to 4 times as
much copper in the used oil as we would with a GL-4 product (with used oil analysis). Eventually the
synchronizers wear to the point that they no longer make contact with the other half of the cone,
bottoming out before stopping the opposing gear.
Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
There is a lot of confusion about gear oils and the API classifications. In this paper I will try to
differentiate the two oils and clear up the mysteries that are flying all over the internet. It is extremely
common, or normal, for all GL-5 oils to claim they cover the API GL-4 requirements for gear oils. This
is a true statement. Does that make them satisfactory for synchromesh or synchronized transmissions?
NO! They meet the GEAR OIL specifications, not transmission oil specifications. The API GL-4 and
GL-5 categories do not mention or have anything to do with transmission synchronizers.
History:
The gear oils of a few decades ago had lead additives that were effective at wear reduction, but not very
good for the environment. A long time ago they began to be replaced by gear oils with a phosphorous
additive (in itself a decent anti-wear additive) with active sulfur to grip hold of the gears and create a
very solid sacrificial layer of material that could be worn off, thereby protecting the gear surface.
Eventually it was discovered that the active sulfur was causing corrosion of brass and other soft metals
used in differentials and transmissions.Somewhere around 25 years ago a deactivated or buffered sulfur was developed that would react with
the phosphorous to create the protective/sacrificial layer in the conditions created in the gear boxes
(temperature and pressure) without being corrosive to the brass, copper, etc. This additive system is
used in most gear oils today.
The problems arise when we try or need to use the same product in the transmission that we use in the
differential. Many people have called oil companies and been told by the “Techs” that answer their
questions that their oils have buffered sulfur and therefore are not corrosive to yellow metals, so their GL-5 oils can be used with brass components. While that answer is totally correct, it does not address
the question asked: Can I use your GL-5 in my synchromesh transmission?
Let’s take a look at the API GL-5 rating. It is a rating for EP (Extreme Pressure) protection. The higher
the EP protection, the higher the GL category. In the mid 60's, Ford needed better protection in their
pickup trucks and GM developed the front wheel drive Oldsmobile Toronado that had a differential
with a very high angle of contact for power transmission to the wheels so a higher category was
developed (later to be called GL-6) to offer the protection needed. This level of protection can still be
claimed, but can no longer be tested since the Toronado rig used to test it is no longer available. (Note:
The 1966 and 1967 Toronados had sun gears between the axle shafts instead of spyder gears and a very
high offset, while suffering from the high temperatures of the engine compartment and very high
pressures.) This is why you will frequently see GL-6 listed as “obsolete”. The test is obsolete, not the
car or its needs. Many other high performance cars continue to spec this level of EP performance.
In normal operation, the sulfur/phosphorous additive forms a black sacrificial coating on the gears and
anything it touches with a little pressure and temperature. As the gears turn, instead of wearing, the
sacrificial coating of additives is peeled off or worn off. This is normal and acceptable in all steel gears.
But when one or more of the surfaces is brass or another soft metal, the sacrificial coating is stronger
than the base metal, and instead of just peeling off, it takes with it a few microns of brass that it is
bound to.A traditional GL-4 gear oil of any given viscosity has about ½ of the level of sulfur/phosphorous
additive that would be in the GL-5 product, so the bond is not as strong, and therefore can be peeled off without peeling a layer of brass (or less brass). This means that the GL-4 product provides a little less
extreme pressure protection, so in the differential of a high-powered car, it would not be the ideal
product in the differential. To understand this need we should be aware of the fact that the differential is
where the final torque is applied to the wheels (in most applications).
But in the transmission, we should consider two factors:
• Due to the fact that the differential applies the final torque, normally we do not need the full EP
protection in the transmission where less torque (about 30%) is applied.
We need to be able to break the EP protection to stop the spinning of the gears long enough to
mesh them or synchronize them.
When we use a GL-5 product in a transmission that requires GL-4, we normally find 2 to 4 times as
much copper in the used oil as we would with a GL-4 product (with used oil analysis). Eventually the
synchronizers wear to the point that they no longer make contact with the other half of the cone,
bottoming out before stopping the opposing gear.
Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
JerseyDrew77
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Virginia & NC
- Car(s)
- 2016 TR GTI S 6MT
Hate to break it to you but it's both, a GL-4/5 just like the Motul 300. I checked it out on ECS.
hey guys, wondering how the ravenol has been for you guys. i was also thinking of switching to get some of the SMF chatter down when i go SMF. did you use it cold weather? notchiness still there? thanks for any feedback.
I was just about to ask the same thing here
I haven't used the Ravenol, but I do have about 2 years on Pentosin MTF2. It is very similar to the Ravenol, a GL-4 fluid with a cst of 7.7. The rest of the specs are pretty similar to the Ravenol as well. Overall, it seems to be an improvement in shift feel over the OEM fluid, and way better the Motul 300, which was terrible for me under 40 degrees F.
Navi
Autocross Champion
- Location
- BK/NYC/Hamptons
but what about over 60F? How did it compare to Motul?
JerseyDrew77
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Virginia & NC
- Car(s)
- 2016 TR GTI S 6MT
I use Motul 300 and it's butter smooth. In the cold mornings when I first start my car up and start driving, it's a little notchy but so was my OEM fluid and it's no where near as bad as what everybody is saying on here.