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Burger Tuning JB4 Golf 1.8TSI MQB specific information thread

4MotionWagen

Ready to race!
Location
Michigan
it doesn't make sense why do i get so much timing lose ign2-5 and ign1 with my set up with a catless downpipe 94 octane, is it my turbo?



I run 3 or 4 gallons of E85 mixed into every tank otherwise I will get the same timing issues. Most of us on jb4 without a tune have to do that to get that much boost. A tune will run richer to maintain timing under high boost.


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Kuba

New member
Location
Ontario, Canada
Sorry guys for coming up with a new topic, but does anyone of you recognize vibrations when accelerating from low rpm with DSG manual?
I try to figure out what it is. I have a relative strong map6 setup and start wot at 2000 in high gear (4/5/6). I hear and feel (in the steering wheel) some vibrations. At higher RPM they are gone. In the logs I can't see anything suspicious.

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I feel the same vibrations on high boost map! I prefer to use the torque and not downshift on highway, but the vibrations are alarming!

It vibrates strangely around 2000 - 2500 rpm. I don't believe this is lugging at all since this is 60-70 mph on the 5mt.

I've logged that area and everything seems good, so maybe it's just some weird resonance of the engine at that rpm and high torque output?
 

ChrisTSI

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
Not 85 fol. E85 fuel as in 85% ethanol. 3 or 4 gallons added to a tank of 93 octane will get you to about 30 to 40% ethanol. E85 will help keep cylinder temps down and less chance of detonation causing timing pull.

Okay thanks , but i was wondering what iron shade said...he said he used fol 85 , i dont want to worry about filling up e85 every gas tank. Also ethantol makes your injection more fuel of carbon build up, i want to prolong walnut blasting.

I am wondering if FOL set to 85 will help timing
 

MeltedSolid

Autocross Newbie
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'15 Golf, e36 328i
I feel the same vibrations on high boost map! I prefer to use the torque and not downshift on highway, but the vibrations are alarming!

It vibrates strangely around 2000 - 2500 rpm. I don't believe this is lugging at all since this is 60-70 mph on the 5mt.

I've logged that area and everything seems good, so maybe it's just some weird resonance of the engine at that rpm and high torque output?

Uh... Lugging has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with rpm. You are definitely lugging your engine.
 

4MotionWagen

Ready to race!
Location
Michigan
Okay thanks , but i was wondering what iron shade said...he said he used fol 85 , i dont want to worry about filling up e85 every gas tank. Also ethantol makes your injection more fuel of carbon build up, i want to prolong walnut blasting.

I am wondering if FOL set to 85 will help timing

Just not going to get boost much past 20psi without mixing in e85 unless you get a tune or upgrade intercooler and run a meth injection setup. If you want to run straight 94 with higher boost then you should get a tune. A tune is a set it and forget it. The tunes that are available run higher boost but they also run much richer AFR to keep timing in check.
 

Kuba

New member
Location
Ontario, Canada
Uh... Lugging has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with rpm. You are definitely lugging your engine.

The speeds were mentioned to demonstrate that the vibration occurs well within the normal operating envelope of this engine. VW obviously designed the car to accept WOT in top gear at highway speeds.

WOT at 2000rpm is not "lugging" anything. If it was, then we'd see the majority of 1.8 engines with failed bottom ends since automatic transmissions will get to peak tq at highway speeds before downshifting.

The vibration did cause me to reduce boost in that range by 2psi out of worry. I'm going to increase stiffness of some of the engine mounts and see if that helps.
 

MeltedSolid

Autocross Newbie
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'15 Golf, e36 328i
The speeds were mentioned to demonstrate that the vibration occurs well within the normal operating envelope of this engine. VW obviously designed the car to accept WOT in top gear at highway speeds.

WOT at 2000rpm is not "lugging" anything. If it was, then we'd see the majority of 1.8 engines with failed bottom ends since automatic transmissions will get to peak tq at highway speeds before downshifting.

The vibration did cause me to reduce boost in that range by 2psi out of worry. I'm going to increase stiffness of some of the engine mounts and see if that helps.

Well if you're only experiencing it with the high boost map then the engine isn't operating in it's normal envelope... It seems like you are taking the correct actions though.
 

Gro Harlem

Ready to race!
Location
Gambrills, MD
flooring the throttle at 2000rpm in 6th gear on the highway is NOT going to end well on a boosted motor. Boosting at that rpm is very stressful on the bottom end and gears in the trans and there is absolutely zero reason to do it, just downshift!

https://youtu.be/soJea7xEt-8
 

George Smooth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
South Africa
The speeds were mentioned to demonstrate that the vibration occurs well within the normal operating envelope of this engine. VW obviously designed the car to accept WOT in top gear at highway speeds.

WOT at 2000rpm is not "lugging" anything. If it was, then we'd see the majority of 1.8 engines with failed bottom ends since automatic transmissions will get to peak tq at highway speeds before downshifting.

The vibration did cause me to reduce boost in that range by 2psi out of worry. I'm going to increase stiffness of some of the engine mounts and see if that helps.

When you reduced the boost did the "vibration" decrease as well?
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Just not going to get boost much past 20psi without mixing in e85 unless you get a tune or upgrade intercooler and run a meth injection setup. If you want to run straight 94 with higher boost then you should get a tune. A tune is a set it and forget it. The tunes that are available run higher boost but they also run much richer AFR to keep timing in check.

The richer AFR isn't necessarily for timing. Is just a safety so it doesn't go lean. Richer than 13.0 on a direct injection engine will make less power, but it's safer. It's an off the shelf tune that has to work on every car in every climate and at every elevation. Not all flash run higher boost. The ones that do pull timing out compared to stock. It's a trade off. My 93 setting is 20 peak in the winter. My timing is like 7-8 degrees more than a flash that's running 25 psi though at that point. Uni runs lower boost, but the timing matches stock. As far as the FOL 85, it was a question because the more boost and ethanol you use, the more fuel you will need. If I ran my car at FOL 70 above 23 psi, my trims would be maxed out. That's what ironshade was asking about. What do your trims and AFR look like on FOL 70 and 23+ psi. Good chance your seeing trims hit 50-51.
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
by any change is the reason why 23psi is getting creamed is because of the 30 fahrenheit weather?

Yes. 100%. Cold air will make more power. So at a lower boost and cold air, you would be the same as another 3-4 psi in warm weather. The engine will use the same amount of fuel and the timing will act the same as if it were too high when warm. I max at 20 target and hit 19.x in the winter. Summer could be 23+
 

4MotionWagen

Ready to race!
Location
Michigan
The richer AFR isn't necessarily for timing. Is just a safety so it doesn't go lean. Richer than 13.0 on a direct injection engine will make less power, but it's safer. It's an off the shelf tune that has to work on every car in every climate and at every elevation. Not all flash run higher boost. The ones that do pull timing out compared to stock. It's a trade off. My 93 setting is 20 peak in the winter. My timing is like 7-8 degrees more than a flash that's running 25 psi though at that point. Uni runs lower boost, but the timing matches stock. As far as the FOL 85, it was a question because the more boost and ethanol you use, the more fuel you will need. If I ran my car at FOL 70 above 23 psi, my trims would be maxed out. That's what ironshade was asking about. What do your trims and AFR look like on FOL 70 and 23+ psi. Good chance your seeing trims hit 50-51.

Trims do go into the high 40's. I tried FOL 80 once and the car went into limp mode just before shifting to 4th. Happened a couple of times so I backed it off.
 

ChrisTSI

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
The richer AFR isn't necessarily for timing. Is just a safety so it doesn't go lean. Richer than 13.0 on a direct injection engine will make less power, but it's safer. It's an off the shelf tune that has to work on every car in every climate and at every elevation. Not all flash run higher boost. The ones that do pull timing out compared to stock. It's a trade off. My 93 setting is 20 peak in the winter. My timing is like 7-8 degrees more than a flash that's running 25 psi though at that point. Uni runs lower boost, but the timing matches stock. As far as the FOL 85, it was a question because the more boost and ethanol you use, the more fuel you will need. If I ran my car at FOL 70 above 23 psi, my trims would be maxed out. That's what ironshade was asking about. What do your trims and AFR look like on FOL 70 and 23+ psi. Good chance your seeing trims hit 50-51.

on 75 fol @21 i hit 51 trims and get 3-5 ign1 at peak boost ... now im running a 19 psi peak and its alot better before i was get epc limp mode with the 21 peak. Do you think i should turn fol to 70 instead when i deciede to turn up boost for summer? Also what is healthy trim levels?
 
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