MK7 vs MK7, Stage 1 takes Stage 2

[Euro Tech]

What is the cost for is38 giac tune there website is a little wonky.

$995, but it's 10% off until the 29th.

 

[Euro Tech]

I wonder if a etune or protune from with COBB ap rival GIAC?

People will say it will, they will show you insane dyno numbers, but you never see a protuned car perform on the street. They all seem to like boost way to much, to the point where they make a ton of torque but have no top end. Tons of timing left on the table do to running too much boost on the bottom end and the turbo is out of breath at 5000 rpm. I think the Cobb tuning software is too user friendly and featureless to be able to compete with the likes of the big name tuners who have full ECU access even if they do start getting smarter about tuning. Keep in mind that Cobb is a pain in the ass to become a new dealer for, so a lot of the protuners got in early and are based around tuning Subarus in a saturated market.

 

[Zx2man]

People will say it will, they will show you insane dyno numbers, but you never see a protuned car perform on the street. They all seem to like boost way to much, to the point where they make a ton of torque but have no top end. Tons of timing left on the table do to running too much boost on the bottom end and the turbo is out of breath at 5000 rpm. I think the Cobb tuning software is too user friendly and featureless to be able to compete with the likes of the big name tuners who have full ECU access even if they do start getting smarter about tuning. Keep in mind that Cobb is a pain in the ass to become a new dealer for, so a lot of the protuners got in early and are based around tuning Subarus in a saturated market.

Im assuming your refering to vw platform on protune? This is my first vw car. Before that I ran Cobb cars and my buddies run them or English racing. Im pdx area. Tim bailey was the protuner fot surgeline and he was tuning wicked fast subaru and e85 gtrs. Test drives in a 650 whp gtr at pdx raceway is quite fun, plus plenty of other pro tuned cars where no one complained about top end lol.

I had to get that out of the way. Plenty of very fast protuned cars out there. Yes on a street not a dyno. But right now...I would have to say that Cobb has a ways to go on the vw platform. Im assuming its just a more advance ecu that needs to be better understood. Meanwhile apr,Giac and others got it figured out. The vw playground is theirs. Honestly right now im in that position. Im in constant contact with the major venders here in Pdx, apr,uni,UM. And with how your car runs Vag on the Giac files, you HAVE to include them. Ive seen your races, the proof is in the pudding, Giac pulls hard.

Wll Cobb become another amazing option for vw? Time will tell. I dont know everything, and all tgese options out there with a brand im mot very familer with is making things interesting.

 

[jb99875]

Reading GIACs site what is race mode and why is it another 100 bucks?

 

[Euro Tech]

Im assuming your refering to vw platform on protune? This is my first vw car. Before that I ran Cobb cars and my buddies run them or English racing. Im pdx area. Tim bailey was the protuner fot surgeline and he was tuning wicked fast subaru and e85 gtrs. Test drives in a 650 whp gtr at pdx raceway is quite fun, plus plenty of other pro tuned cars where no one complained about top end lol.

I had to get that out of the way. Plenty of very fast protuned cars out there. Yes on a street not a dyno. But right now...I would have to say that Cobb has a ways to go on the vw platform. Im assuming its just a more advance ecu that needs to be better understood. Meanwhile apr,Giac and others got it figured out. The vw playground is theirs. Honestly right now im in that position. Im in constant contact with the major venders here in Pdx, apr,uni,UM. And with how your car runs Vag on the Giac files, you HAVE to include them. Ive seen your races, the proof is in the pudding, Giac pulls hard.

Wll Cobb become another amazing option for vw? Time will tell. I dont know everything, and all tgese options out there with a brand im mot very familer with is making things interesting.

Tell ya what, I will be racing at the Ridge in Shelton, WA in my Scirocco race car on the 29th. You meet me there and I will flash your car, PM me if that interests you. I have experience with English racing, myself having tuned an Evo VIII that they could not quite get right, no fault to them really but more of a distance issue. Cobb, well I don't have a lot of faith in them on the MK7 at least not yet. They do not have the access to the ECU that APR, UNI, GIAC etc have. I have seen their tools, it is very basic. It is super user friendly which is why you see everyone and their mom claiming to be a protuner. It may work on Subaru where you still use your basic Fuel and Ignition tables for the majority of the work. But from my basic understanding of our ECU's that is not the case here. I don't pretend to know our ECU's like the back of my hand but I do have a general enough understanding to know that the tools Cobb provides its dealers with are not adequate. Not that they don't make power, but that they have limited options on how to make the power.

 

[Euro Tech]

Reading GIACs site what is race mode and why is it another 100 bucks?

GIAC's pump fuel files are adaptive to be able to accommodate 91 though 93 octane fuels. As a result they can not be as aggressive as say a pure 93 octane file from APR for example. Not to say slower, just less aggressive as APR 93 HO files are on the ragged edge of what is possible on 93 octane so there is no room in them to run 91 octane, if you were traveling as an example. But with GIAC unlike anyone else you can switch on the fly to the race mode, which is made specifically for an E30 blend, 109 octane race fuel, or water meth, this allows for far more timing which mean a lot stronger top end. The other tuners do not offer switching, so if you want to run a race fuel map on APR, you need to go back to the dealer and have it flashed, where as with GIAC even with the car still running you plug in the flashloader and switch to the race mode on the fly. So essentially the GIAC Race mode is like having another more aggressive tune in terms of timing at least than anything else available without sacrificing your ability to run pump fuel daily.

 

[jb99875]

GIAC's pump fuel files are adaptive to be able to accommodate 91 though 93 octane fuels. As a result they can not be as aggressive as say a pure 93 octane file from APR for example. Not to say slower, just less aggressive as APR 93 HO files are on the ragged edge of what is possible on 93 octane so there is no room in them to run 91 octane, if you were traveling as an example. But with GIAC unlike anyone else you can switch on the fly to the race mode, which is made specifically for an E30 blend, 109 octane race fuel, or water meth, this allows for far more timing which mean a lot stronger top end. The other tuners do not offer switching, so if you want to run a race fuel map on APR, you need to go back to the dealer and have it flashed, where as with GIAC even with the car still running you plug in the flashloader and switch to the race mode on the fly. So essentially the GIAC Race mode is like having another more aggressive tune in terms of timing at least than anything else available without sacrificing your ability to run pump fuel daily.

So is the extra 100 for the flashloader itself? Because that sounds awesome. I have e85 across the street from me.

 

[Euro Tech]

So is the extra 100 for the flashloader itself? Because that sounds awesome. I have e85 across the street from me.

The flashloader is $150 however they come up used now and again for much less. The race file is $100. So really the total cost is $250 for switching options. Or you can have your dealer switch modes for you but that kind of negates the point of the switching option.

 

[jb99875]

Some one just posted one yesterday! I just pm'd him. How do you feel about their DSG tunes? I've heard a lot of back and forth about GIAC dsg tune

 

[Zx2man]

Vagtech: you been pm'd

 

[AtlantaDad]

People will say it will, they will show you insane dyno numbers, but you never see a protuned car perform on the street. They all seem to like boost way to much, to the point where they make a ton of torque but have no top end. Tons of timing left on the table do to running too much boost on the bottom end and the turbo is out of breath at 5000 rpm. I think the Cobb tuning software is too user friendly and featureless to be able to compete with the likes of the big name tuners who have full ECU access even if they do start getting smarter about tuning. Keep in mind that Cobb is a pain in the ass to become a new dealer for, so a lot of the protuners got in early and are based around tuning Subarus in a saturated market.

Damnit Vag! I was thisclose to pulling the trigger on Cobb and then I had to go and read these posts.

What would you recommend for the average Joe who wants a little more power than say, a JB1/4, who prefers convenience, values overall safety over maximum dyno numbers, and isn't out looking to win races against cars he has no business destroying? Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Euro Tech]

Damnit Vag! I was thisclose to pulling the trigger on Cobb and then I had to go and read these posts.

What would you recommend for the average Joe who wants a little more power than say, a JB1/4, who prefers convenience, values overall safety over maximum dyno numbers, and isn't out looking to win races against cars he has no business destroying? Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Well, I would say that a JB4 would be plenty for what you are asking for. However if you are willing to pay the couple hundred dollars extra for a flash tune I can only recommend GIAC or Unitronic at this point. After all the research I have done and all the logs I have seen my personal opinion is that they offer the safest most turbo friendly options, both make power through timing and don't use mass amounts of boost. So in the end, my answer is GIAC because I have pushed this car so far past its design limits yet it keeps on ticking, I have never had an issue with a car I have flashed, all of my customers are extremely happy.

 

[TwinDad]

Well, I would say that a JB4 would be plenty for what you are asking for. However if you are willing to pay the couple hundred dollars extra for a flash tune I can only recommend GIAC or Unitronic at this point. After all the research I have done and all the logs I have seen my personal opinion is that they offer the safest most turbo friendly options, both make power through timing and don't use mass amounts of boost. So in the end, my answer is GIAC because I have pushed this car so far past its design limits yet it keeps on ticking, I have never had an issue with a car I have flashed, all of my customers are extremely happy.

Since you bring up timing over boost, is there any ballpark range of what 1-2 degrees of timing is worth over a pound of boost? The topic just came up on another thread because an ED tune had low boost, but had lots of timing throughout the rpm range. Especially in the low to mid where others push the boost high. Someone said that the timing is only important up top. In the midrange boost is more important than the timing to make max torque. Is this true and what's the trade off or breaking even point between the two?

 

[Euro Tech]

Since you bring up timing over boost, is there any ballpark range of what 1-2 degrees of timing is worth over a pound of boost? The topic just came up on another thread because an ED tune had low boost, but had lots of timing throughout the rpm range. Especially in the low to mid where others push the boost high. Someone said that the timing is only important up top. In the midrange boost is more important than the timing to make max torque. Is this true and what's the trade off or breaking even point between the two?

Timing kicks in up top when the turbo losses efficiency. I think over 5500rpm a degree of timing is worth more power than a pound of boost. There are always trade offs, if you want a ton of mid range torque you need very high boost early on, which is not ideal in the real world, good for bragging though. The problem with that is that the timing curve is affected and so it is not able to ramp up to the 13-14 degrees that are ideal above 6000rpm. So in my opinion running a moderate amount of boost later with less of a huge spike down low and allowing for maximum torque up top is what wins races. May not be the best on a dyno, but perfect for the track or the street. Especially when you factor in turbocharger reliability.

 

[TwinDad]

Timing kicks in up top when the turbo losses efficiency. I think over 5500rpm a degree of timing is worth more power than a pound of boost. There are always trade offs, if you want a ton of mid range torque you need very high boost early on, which is not ideal in the real world, good for bragging though. The problem with that is that the timing curve is affected and so it is not able to ramp up to the 13-14 degrees that are ideal above 6000rpm. So in my opinion running a moderate amount of boost later with less of a huge spike down low and allowing for maximum torque up top is what wins races. May not be the best on a dyno, but perfect for the track or the street. Especially when you factor in turbocharger reliability.

Good to hear. I feel like my car is running strongest when I get that full timing advance. On the 1.8 it's 18 degrees above 6,000. With a little e85 I can keep a nice timing advance with a pretty flat boost curve from 2,900-5,100. It then drops about 4psi up to 6,400, but I get that full advance