MK7 vs MK7, Stage 1 takes Stage 2

[craigsix]

apr has a 100 octane tune that adds more timing and tyler aul has stock turbo record with it. 11.8@114 mph.

 

[rafycotto]

Well, I would say that a JB4 would be plenty for what you are asking for. However if you are willing to pay the couple hundred dollars extra for a flash tune I can only recommend GIAC or Unitronic at this point. After all the research I have done and all the logs I have seen my personal opinion is that they offer the safest most turbo friendly options, both make power through timing and don't use mass amounts of boost. So in the end, my answer is GIAC because I have pushed this car so far past its design limits yet it keeps on ticking, I have never had an issue with a car I have flashed, all of my customers are extremely happy.

I think Eurodyne made a good step with adjustable file, so now you can adjust you desire timing and boost on the run.

 

[Noize1]

GIAC's pump fuel files are adaptive to be able to accommodate 91 though 93 octane fuels. As a result they can not be as aggressive as say a pure 93 octane file from APR for example. Not to say slower, just less aggressive as APR 93 HO files are on the ragged edge of what is possible on 93 octane so there is no room in them to run 91 octane, if you were traveling as an example. But with GIAC unlike anyone else you can switch on the fly to the race mode, which is made specifically for an E30 blend, 109 octane race fuel, or water meth, this allows for far more timing which mean a lot stronger top end. The other tuners do not offer switching, so if you want to run a race fuel map on APR, you need to go back to the dealer and have it flashed, where as with GIAC even with the car still running you plug in the flashloader and switch to the race mode on the fly. So essentially the GIAC Race mode is like having another more aggressive tune in terms of timing at least than anything else available without sacrificing your ability to run pump fuel daily.

AP has full access to all maps at the Protuner level. Hypothetically as a Protuner, APR or GIAC could write and upload their canned ROMs with an AP (using identical code creates identical results). I think you're a little confused about how writing a ROM works. The AP is just a tool, the guy authoring the tune is what makes the difference.

I got a laugh at you fixing an English tune on an Evo, btw. Lucas and Aaron are professional tuners by trade with multiple records with the 4G63 and 4B11. What's your tuning background?

 

[Mk7R Estate]

The flashloader is $150 however they come up used now and again for much less. The race file is $100. So really the total cost is $250 for switching options. Or you can have your dealer switch modes for you but that kind of negates the point of the switching option.

Is it possible to flash the unit at home or must I have the car to a dealer the first time?

 

[Mk7GTl]

GIAC's pump fuel files are adaptive to be able to accommodate 91 though 93 octane fuels. As a result they can not be as aggressive as say a pure 93 octane file from APR for example. Not to say slower, just less aggressive as APR 93 HO files are on the ragged edge of what is possible on 93 octane so there is no room in them to run 91 octane, if you were traveling as an example. But with GIAC unlike anyone else you can switch on the fly to the race mode, which is made specifically for an E30 blend, 109 octane race fuel, or water meth, this allows for far more timing which mean a lot stronger top end. The other tuners do not offer switching, so if you want to run a race fuel map on APR, you need to go back to the dealer and have it flashed, where as with GIAC even with the car still running you plug in the flashloader and switch to the race mode on the fly. So essentially the GIAC Race mode is like having another more aggressive tune in terms of timing at least than anything else available without sacrificing your ability to run pump fuel daily.

Vag the only issue im concerned about w/m is that it's not really giving that octane boost on a 50/50 mix (snow boost juice). I'm running the Eurodyne 93 file and my iat are low with the starting injection at 12 and full spray 18, but I still get semi timing pull here and there. I'm not sure what the highest wm mix you can run in the window washer reservoir? I do occasionally pump e85 though..I don't mind running or trying out the giac race file, but only if it will run efficient and how it should run. Unfortunately we only have bs 91 where I live and 100 octane at 9.99 a gallon.

 

[Euro Tech]

AP has full access to all maps at the Protuner level. Hypothetically as a Protuner, APR or GIAC could write and upload their canned ROMs with an AP (using identical code creates identical results). I think you're a little confused about how writing a ROM works. The AP is just a tool, the guy authoring the tune is what makes the difference.

I got a laugh at you fixing an English tune on an Evo, btw. Lucas and Aaron are professional tuners by trade with multiple records with the 4G63 and 4B11. What's your tuning background?

Talk to Lucas, Aaron tuned the car initially, their customer drove the car over to Idaho where he lives. Car would not idle. I talked to Lucas, he gave me access to their software, I got the idle set and it was good to go. I agree they are great guys, and great tuners, certainly better than me on that platform. Only so much you can do remotely though. Eventually Lucas took a trip down here to finalize the tune.

Word for word from the repair order:
"Diagnose: Smoke tested for vacuum leaks, no vacuum leaks found. Checked compression cylinder 1 166 PSI, cylinder 2 162 PSI, cylinder 3 158 PSI, cylinder 4 165 PSI, all in spec. Checked fuel pressure, 44PSI, Activated ISV stepper motor, idle control follows component activation. The off load fuel enrichment seems to be poorly calibrated, cold start enrichment is nearly non-existent."

My background? I have been tuning for over 10 years. I own a tuning shop here in Lewiston, ID called Trollhaus Tuning. I specialize in high HP AAN's.

The accessport is lacking a lot of access to the ECU, one of my buddies owns a shop in Arizona, he is a Cobb pro-tuner, I have seen it's capabilities on the MK6 and the MK7 I can assure you it does not give "full access"


Here is the Evo in question in action against my GTI when I was stock turbo:



And here is another English EVO VS my GTI on stock turbo:

 

[Euro Tech]

Is it possible to flash the unit at home or must I have the car to a dealer the first time?

The car has to be flashed by a dealer. Afterwords you can switch between modes, but that is not a flash, just accessing other maps.

 

[Euro Tech]

Vag the only issue im concerned about w/m is that it's not really giving that octane boost on a 50/50 mix (snow boost juice). I'm running the Eurodyne 93 file and my iat are low with the starting injection at 12 and full spray 18, but I still get semi timing pull here and there. I'm not sure what the highest wm mix you can run in the window washer reservoir? I do occasionally pump e85 though..I don't mind running or trying out the giac race file, but only if it will run efficient and how it should run. Unfortunately we only have bs 91 where I live and 100 octane at 9.99 a gallon.

The only thing you can do is try, If you are pulling 1-2 degrees that is acceptable. I would suggest a 60/40 mix though.

 

[Hotfart]

Is it possible to flash the unit at home or must I have the car to a dealer the first time?

To piggyback on Mk7R Estate's question, is there a "stock" file the flashloader is able to load, for dealer visits? I do understand the tune can still be detected if VW digs into it, but at the end of the day I'd feel better re-flashing to stock for dealer work.

I wouldn't mind visiting a GIAC dealer for the initial flash, but if it's like APR where you'd have to re-visit the GIAC dealer to be flashed back to stock, then I'd have to pass.

Also, their site doesn't seem to list pricing that I can find. What's the cost of a tune plus flashloader? Or is that determined by the vendor?

 

[CLOUT]

To piggyback on Mk7R Estate's question, is there a "stock" file the flashloader is able to load, for dealer visits? I do understand the tune can still be detected if VW digs into it, but at the end of the day I'd feel better re-flashing to stock for dealer work.

I wouldn't mind visiting a GIAC dealer for the initial flash, but if it's like APR where you'd have to re-visit the GIAC dealer to be flashed back to stock, then I'd have to pass.

Also, their site doesn't seem to list pricing that I can find. What's the cost of a tune plus flashloader? Or is that determined by the vendor?

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29225

GIAC does not support our '17's yet, Ive been PMing back and forth with Connie as I am interested as well. With all the positive feedback and actual videos of VAG*Tech murdering cars off a roll and on a roadcourse I'm sold. GIAC is what I will be going with when I go IS38.

Latest PM from Connie@GIAC:

"I apologize I didn't notice you had a '17, but we do not have tuning for the 2017 GTI's yet, just up to 2016s. The only 2017 software we have out at the moment is for the Golf R and S3. However, we are working on it and trying to get it out ASAP. What I can do is add you onto our mailing list specific to the '17 GTIs and send you any updates that we have in the future if you would like.

However, all of the pricing info should be the same for when it does come out but it's just a matter of when (minus the sale).

Truly sorry not noticing. Hope you can wait it out because it'll be worth it!

Regards,
Connie"

 

[Noize1]

Talk to Lucas, Aaron tuned the car initially, their customer drove the car over to Idaho where he lives. Car would not idle. I talked to Lucas, he gave me access to their software, I got the idle set and it was good to go. I agree they are great guys, and great tuners, certainly better than me on that platform. Only so much you can do remotely though. Eventually Lucas took a trip down here to finalize the tune.

Word for word from the repair order:
"Diagnose: Smoke tested for vacuum leaks, no vacuum leaks found. Checked compression cylinder 1 166 PSI, cylinder 2 162 PSI, cylinder 3 158 PSI, cylinder 4 165 PSI, all in spec. Checked fuel pressure, 44PSI, Activated ISV stepper motor, idle control follows component activation. The off load fuel enrichment seems to be poorly calibrated, cold start enrichment is nearly non-existent."

My background? I have been tuning for over 10 years. I own a tuning shop here in Lewiston, ID called Trollhaus Tuning. I specialize in high HP AAN's.

The accessport is lacking a lot of access to the ECU, one of my buddies owns a shop in Arizona, he is a Cobb pro-tuner, I have seen it's capabilities on the MK6 and the MK7 I can assure you it does not give "full access"


Here is the Evo in question in action against my GTI when I was stock turbo:



And here is another English EVO VS my GTI on stock turbo:

All good on the English stuff, thanks for taking the time to explain it better. The mk7 is the first time I've ever used an Accessport- I've used open source/Ecuflash on all my Evos since it became available in 2005, as even end users have full access to all maps in the ROM.

My mk6 was an APR S2 open differential clutch killer that I was happy to see the backside of the day I traded it in. The MK7 is a new ballgame and such a better car in every way.

Your little IS38 car is moving out pretty good in that top video against the CT9A. On paper, my Evo is heavier and makes less power than that IX, but it's enough for 11.60s@120mph. It's a pretty mild car, comparatively- OEM cams and all, just a stock frame appearing turbo and E85. Smallish IS38 transient boost response and area under the curve FTW, I guess. Ever run that thing down the quarter?

 

[Euro Tech]

All good on the English stuff, thanks for taking the time to explain it better. The mk7 is the first time I've ever used an Accessport- I've used open source/Ecuflash on all my Evos since it became available in 2005, as even end users have full access to all maps in the ROM.

My mk6 was an APR S2 open differential clutch killer that I was happy to see the backside of the day I traded it in. The MK7 is a new ballgame and such a better car in every way.

Your little IS38 car is moving out pretty good in that top video against the CT9A. On paper, my Evo is heavier and makes less power than that IX, but it's enough for 11.60s@120mph. It's a pretty mild car, comparatively- OEM cams and all, just a stock frame appearing turbo and E85. Smallish IS38 transient boost response and area under the curve FTW, I guess. Ever run that thing down the quarter?

That was not on IS38, that was on the stock turbo. So IS20. I am asking him for a re-run now that I have the IS38. My best 1/4 mile on stock turbo was 12.2@114.3

 

[Mk7GTl]

That was not on IS38, that was on the stock turbo. So IS20. I am asking him for a re-run now that I have the IS38. My best 1/4 mile on stock turbo was 12.2@114.3

That's a crazy time for a IS20. You will probably be at 120 with the IS38.

 

[Noize1]

That was not on IS38, that was on the stock turbo. So IS20. I am asking him for a re-run now that I have the IS38. My best 1/4 mile on stock turbo was 12.2@114.3

Stock snail on your car for that run? Dude, that 35R guy needs serious help! A win is a win, but his setup should trap 126-127mph on E85 with ease and put train lengths on any IS20 GTI and pull an IS38 with authority.

 

[Noize1]

That's a crazy time for a IS20. You will probably be at 120 with the IS38.

He's clearly a great driver, but it likely has some weight removed.