Photo comparison of 235/40 vs. 225/40 Michelin Pilot Super Spot on Stock Austins

[napadirt]

Looking to ditch those awful Pirelli P7 Cinturato All Seasons for some grippy new rubber? Like the Michelin Pilot Super Sport?

But which size do I buy? OEM 225/40 or do I go bigger to 235/40?

Michelin doesn't recommend 235/40 on the 7.5" wide Austin rim (I am not sure what the limitations are), but my tire shop wasn't concerned about mounting them on 7.5" wide rim.
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sel...port/pilot-super-sport/tire-details#techspecs

Going with the theory wider tires yield more grip, why not up size? I had to see what they looked like mounted first to make a decision.

Thanks to my local America's Tire Co store for ordering and mounting both tires for this comparison.

So what do I think?

Short answer, after seeing both tires mounted in the flesh I went for the 235s.

I've only driven 5 miles on them but so far I have no complaints on the way they steer. The increased grip on these Michelin's is immense. Even with stock tune on the Pirelli's I could spin the tires in 1st or 2nd gear just by squeezing the throttle. Now wide open throttle in 1st and 2nd on PSS -- no spin, just chirp, bite, and go! Cornering speeds will be much higher. I am also hoping the understeer will diminish with the enhanced traction.

The tire mechanics said the 235s were not any more difficult to mount.

Stance of the car looks much more aggressive with the 235s.

235 does look noticeably wider than 225 (duh!)

235 and 225 mounted -- spot the difference?
=

235

 

[david9962000]

Looks good, I'm getting mine installed tomorrow in 225/40.

 

[napadirt]

Beyond the obvious increased traction under acceleration, braking, and cornering, here are my initial impressions of the Michelin PSS after 60 miles:

1. Body roll is substantially reduced.
2. Turn-in more responsive.
3. Less steering angle required. About half the slip angle.
4. Stiffer ride over bumps. Not harsh, just much more road feel through the chassis. Steering feel regrettably is still numb.
5. Front and rear of the car now roll together on corner exit, feeling more connected.


Yes the ride is slightly stiffer, but it's not a harsh ride by any means. Bumps on the road are now very much part of driving experience. Road noise however isn't any louder.

These tires completely transformed the personality of the car. It now drives like a "sports car", instead of a "sporty hatch". I find it somewhat surprising that tires can have this large of an effect on the car

Nearly all of the handling gripes I had on the car were eliminated by these tires. I am now less keen to lower the car and add stiffer anti-roll bars. I will eventually try stiffening the rear sway bar to make the car more pointy and the rearend more active, but I may choose a tune first prior to any chassis upgrades. With the increased traction, the additional torque and power provided by a tune now seem more usable.

I wonder why VW chose to dull the driving experience with these Pirelli A/S tires?

 

[carterruss]

Not that I doubt you but it seems strange that body roll would be reduced. I definitely think the Pirellis are junk and VW should get on the Michelin train

 

[napadirt]

Yes I also found that perplexing...

But it could be explained by stiffer side walls, which is consistent with the rougher ride. Stiff side walls transmit shock into the chassis during bump impacts more efficiently.

Whereas the Pirelli side walls are more compliant to impact but also deform more under static loads, e.g. cornering, which means more body roll.

Edit:

Found this excellent article on this subject which validates my speculations.

"In general, tires made for maximum handling performance have very stiff sidewalls. Stiff sidewalls allows better control of the tire contact patch when cornering and can create more stability by reducing overall body roll. Unfortunately, stiff tires transmit more road imperfections to the chassis which can be uncomfortable; thus, non-performance tires have very soft sidewalls."

http://automotivethinker.com/tires/tires-sidewalls-vs-air-pressure/

 

[jjm51]

thanks so very much for this napadirt.

really appreciate the reportage' and the pics.

as i told you i will be doing the same exact thing. just adding 18 x 8 oem wheels though.

love the new wheels on your car. the look that is. just more aggressive. the better performance is just more good 'sauce.'

i have never modded a car in almost 40 years of driving, but i am thinking (maybe) a slight drop (dg springs, vwr, or neuspeed.)

i will do what you did first before doing the springs. i'm also possibly interested in sway bars. not sure about that. i am not tracking my car when i finally get it. not sure i need sway bars. i will 'follow' you to see if you go that route.

thanks again for a great thread. i'm sure it is helping many of us here.

 

[dr_mat]

Our car came with Continentals (made in Germany, see?).
FWIW if you wanted more grip you could have let 2psi out of each tyre for a lot less money..

 

[2015WhiteGTI]

It's funny because you're not even realizing all the benefits of these tires yet. It actually takes about 500 miles for tires to fully "break-in."

They're going to get better.

I'm going to run 245/40-17 once I get my new rims. Trying to get as much rubber as I can to the road

 

[carterruss]

It's funny because you're not even realizing all the benefits of these tires yet. It actually takes about 500 miles for tires to fully "break-in."

It's posts like these that are bad. I'm trying to save for a house and this forum makes it very difficult.

 

[dr_mat]

Hey .. at least wear out the first set of tyres before splashing the cash ... it's not like it takes long to burn a pair of front tyres ..
Also remember that any NEW tyre will feel better than a worn tyre.

 

[jjm51]

Our car came with Continentals (made in Germany, see?).
FWIW if you wanted more grip you could have let 2psi out of each tyre for a lot less money..

lol.

everyone is an 'expert' on other people's choices.

i find your post ignorant.

i am planning on doing the same exact thing as napadirt.

a couple ot 'ideas' for you to consider dr_mat;

some of us will be changing the wheels and tires from new. you can either sell them for a good chunk of change, or even trade them back in to a tire shop for credit towards the new stuff if you are a little lazy. not sure you can do that where you live. so, the price difference for some of us is not that big for the gain we will be getting.

have you driven on michelin pss'? i have. the tires that come on the gti are crap here compared to the michelin's. why not enjoy a great tire from the start of car ownership? safety, performance, and finally the all important 'look.'

i have about 10 years of driving on the michelin's. they are way beyond in all ways what comes standard on the gti's over here. not sure of the quality of tire you guys have. my apologies if you have a better tire/tyre than we do.

reduce tire pressure? come on now. i personally think that is bad advice too.

tires and brakes are some of the most important parts of a car. for many many reasons. again; why not go with some that really enhance the car on several levels when compared to the oem tires?

napadirt is doing us a favor here by sharing his experience. you are entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but i think your wrong on this thread.

safe driving to you dr_mat.

 

[jjm51]

It's funny because you're not even realizing all the benefits of these tires yet. It actually takes about 500 miles for tires to fully "break-in."

They're going to get better.

^^^this is true.

 

[dwvw]

I have 235/35r19 PSS's on 19x9 Neuspeed RSe10's, night and day difference. And even going to a much larger wheel I still shaved some weight over stock. Combined with the KW coil overs my car really handles now. I think I may upgrade the sway bar end links as well as the rear swat bar, and do a rear chassis brace soon too.

 

[Whackamac]

Not that I doubt you but it seems strange that body roll would be reduced. I definitely think the Pirellis are junk and VW should get on the Michelin train

I got my GTI the weekend before out fall autox enduro race. I wanted a baseline time for my car so I raced it with an APR tune on the all-seasons.

lets say that it didn't go well... The Pirelli's suck. The ESC not being defeated at the time sucked worse. The two together = embarrassment.

I threw a set of 235 Michelin PSS on my new, lighter wheels just before I did suspension. I can say:

1. the PSS tires do reduce body roll on their own. Adding a drop and swaybar = .

2. Turn in is indeed far more responsive. Adding a bit of ESC Defeat and XDS Strong once again = and then if you know what your are doing - It feels kinda cool to know I can run with a totally higher class of cars and keep up or pass them. The looks are priceless.

3. Steering feels WAY more connected to the road. The wider tire can be felt immediately. Makes me curious about RJ's 245's...

4&5 blah blah blah... lol.. My car is anything but a buttery comfy ride. Just the way I like it . I have learned to adapt to these new e-steering cars, so it really doesn't affect me referring back to my #1.

I smoked a 2008ish WRX (sti?) this afternoon that was quite modded and had a cf trunk/hood. He got me off the line to about my front bumper when I grabbed and just shot by him. I got a smile and a nod when he caught up. CSB, I know... . The Pirelli's wouldn't have had a chance.

Underbody and chassis braces are my next acquisitions. We may just get to or even worse...

 

[dr_mat]

Hmm. Ignorant implies I was wrong.. was I wrong?

I said you get more grip if you shave a little off the tyre pressure, this is 100% verifiable fact.. I didn't say it improves the handling.

Also did I, at any point, say I didn't think he should have done it? No. Why would I care?

I would like to add a serious point however that there's very little in this sort of stuff sometimes. I do know the difference between good and bad tyres .. ffs the Corrado eats them like .. well like an R would, but you need to make sure everything else is equal before you make your call.

lol.

everyone is an 'expert' on other people's choices.

i find your post ignorant.

reduce tire pressure? come on now. i personally think that is bad advice too.

safe driving to you dr_mat.