Golf GTD estate announced

GTI estate anyone, lol ?

Lol VW would never do it, would they? Lol.

I can't see - the GTI brand is so iconic as a hatchback.

But.....


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Chris43 said:

I doubt the GTD estate will handle as well as the hatchback GTD, the extra weight around the rear end must increase body roll and subsequently the risk of oversteer. I'd be surprised if VW spent time and money re configuring the rear suspension setup for what is likely to be a niche product.

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I drive the normal 1.6 TDI estate and there isn't much body roll at all. It drives similar to the hatchback.

golfdave said:

...............the only thing that looks standard which is not available on the GT estate is "progressive steering", but whether this is the full montey or not I don't know.

Also the engine is the 2lt 184PS/380Nm...................the standard 2lt 150PS/320Nm can be easily chipped to the same power outputs...........

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Not the same. I'd never remap a TDI. as you should know the entire 184 PS engine is different.

James75 said:

GolfDave - Golf Alltrack Estate will give you 4wd and the GTD engine.

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This

Chris43 said:

I doubt the GTD estate will handle as well as the hatchback GTD,

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This

Celt1988 said:

I drive the normal 1.6 TDI estate and there isn't much body roll at all. It drives similar to the hatchback.

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It's not body roll what makes the difference. It's the overall length and mass distribution.
Drive a hatch GTD or even better a GTI and you will agree. Completely different experience.
The Variant/Estate feels like a bigger car. Stable but sluggish, noticeably less agile.

James75 said:

GolfDave - Golf Alltrack Estate will give you 4wd and the GTD engine.

In my opinion the GTD is much better value than the GT particularly if you're a private buyer.

James


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DOH......forgot about that.(alltrack)....coming to the UK this year.

As for GTD estate...........no satnav as standard compared to UK GT............also UK GT estate has the same sports suspension, same multilink rear axle, same sports seats, same tinted rear glass as GTD estate.....& you can spec a GT with the xenon/LED DRLs, & 2Zone climate which is standard on the GTD............also GTD estate has 17" alloys as standard same size as GT............like I said should have given it 4wd & made it a proper diesel version of the R

Would gave thought GTD estate in the UK would get 18 inch wheels same as the hatch. The GTD feels like a completely different experience. The GT is lovely but not lovely enough for me not to consider a Match unless I really want the ACT tech. The GTD has a more defined identity and in turn feels quite special.


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the bruce said:

It's not body roll what makes the difference. It's the overall length and mass distribution.
Drive a hatch GTD or even better a GTI and you will agree. Completely different experience.
The Variant/Estate feels like a bigger car. Stable but sluggish, noticeably less agile.

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I'm working out some figures based on corner weights..........will post up later

BUT..........having driven MK4, MK4R32, MK5TDI, MK6TDI, MK7 estate 2lt TDI, & mine...I can say that the estate has better weight balance than the hatch...........this is because it is the hatch plus 1ft after the rear axle...........goes around the corners more level & is less "nose heavy"..........as for sluggish & less agile...................maybe in standard form on a track but even on the roads here you wouldn't notice any difference......hell I can't & I'm picky!...............Nothing that a set of better springs/damper/ARB's couldn't sort if you really wanted to...........

Estates have been raced before...........remember the Volvo 850's in the BTCC??.....................fecking fast & brilliant...........& they spawned the 850 AWD R.............very nice estate..........

James75 said:

Would gave thought GTD estate in the UK would get 18 inch wheels same as the hatch. The GTD feels like a completely different experience. The GT is lovely but not lovely enough for me not to consider a Match unless I really want the ACT tech. The GTD has a more defined identity and in turn feels quite special.

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Agree, the GTD has a defined identity while the GT has not. The GTD looks
special with the tartan cloth and the GTD/GTI specific trim. The GT doesn't.

golfdave said:

I'm working out some figures based on corner weights..........will post up later

...I can say that the estate has better weight balance than the hatch..........

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It doesn't matter. You didn't even get the point. It's not the weight distribution,
but that's why I said mass distribution. I use to say this for a reason.

Drive them both and you will notice the difference.

the bruce said:

It doesn't matter. You didn't even get the point. It's not the weight distribution,
but that's why I said mass distribution. I use to say this for a reason.

Drive them both and you will notice the difference.

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Ok then mass............still better in estate........diesel hatch compared to diesel estate...........roof line not higher (much) than hatch,

estate will have the moment on inertia nearer the centre (maybe "up" vertically a bit more) as it has more mass & weight over the rear balancing out the heavy front end from the diesel engine...........estate & hatch same wheel base, same platform, same floor pan, seats, etc etc up to & including the rear axle.............

Yes total weight is greater than hatch.

forgot I have driven the GT hatch mk7 as well................only one I didn't drive but sat in & played with was the golf SV GT............the hatch was nice sunset red paint with light coloured interior.........not practical tho!

golfdave said:

Ok then mass............still better in estate.......

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Think twice.

Ok looked at the weight splits & worked out below, estate better!!

Working out approximate weight distribution of GTD estate.
From VW UK brochure unladen weights include fuel, 7kg luggage & 68kg driver so:-
3dr Hatch GT 2lt 150PS diesel = 1354kg (manual), 1374kg (DSG)
5dr Hatch GT 2lt 150PS diesel = 1384kg (manual), 1404kg (DSG)

3dr Hatch GTI 2lt = 1351kg (manual), 1370kg (DSG)
5dr Hatch GTI 2lt = 1381kg (manual), 1400kg (DSG)

3dr Hatch GTD 2lt 184PS diesel = 1377kg (manual), 1395kg (DSG)
5dr Hatch GTD 2lt 184PS diesel = 1407kg (manual), 1425kg (DSG)

5dr Estate GT 2lt 150PS diesel = 1436kg (manual), 1454kg (DSG)

So the 3dr GTD adds 23kg (manual) or 21kg (DSG) to the weight of a 3dr GT 2lt 150PS. This weight is going to be mainly over the front axle as rear spec is the similar apart from the weight of the wheels (17” or 18”).

Now a 5dr hatch GT 2lt 150PS adds 20kg to the weight of the 3dr version. This weight will be shared between the axles as the doors are between the wheelbase. However for this argument we will say the weight is nearer the rear axle, so add to the back axle weight.

Therefore we will take the weight difference between the 3dr GT & estate GT at 82kg (manual) or 80kg (DSG) and say that is all on the back axle.
Now forum member Pacific German have put up corner weights for their NAR 3dr GTI DSG. Now they are saying for ½ tank, no luggage & driver = 459.9kg front left, 432.7kg front right, 288.8kg rear left, 256.7kg rear right, total weight of 1438.1kg. That’s 892.6kg front/ 545.5kg rear split or 62%/38% weight distribution.

So if we say that a DSG estate adds 80kg over the back axle compared to a 3dr Hatch DSG, & a GTD 3dr adds 26kg over the front axle compared to 3dr Hatch GTI DSG. If we add these to the Pacific German figures we have a GTD DSG estate with 918.6kg front, 625.5kg rear, total of 1,544.10kg or a split of 59.49% front/ 40.51% rear!!!

Now when you do this for the lighter petrol engines then the weight balance/split is even nearer the 50/50 as you are taking off the extra weight from the diesel engine! Like I say having driven loads of golf’s inc various MK7s the estate handles better through corners than the hatch............ok in a track situation the lighter hatch has the slight edge, but for every day driving the estate is better IMO!

If you add in dynamic chassis then the ride and cornering quality will be excellent.

mcmaddy said:

If you add in dynamic chassis then the ride and cornering quality will be excellent.

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+1.....or a good set of coilovers.........

I recon the R estate will be very good, a car mag will defo have to do a road test with the R hatch..........

doing those figures for the R hatch/R estate.........

So “R” hatch 3dr is 1476kg (manual) & 1495kg (DSG). That’s up from 3dr Hatch GTD 2lt 184PS diesel = 1377kg (manual), 1395kg (DSG). Now some of that weight will be engine, the rest will be the rear diff/haldex, then the centre prop shaft. If we say out of the 99kg (manual) or 100kg (DSG) 40kg is rear axle “weighted” & 60kg is front axle “weighted” as worst case “front heavy” example. Then add in the 80kg which the estate adds in........R estate comes out at 978.6kg front, 665.5kg, total of 1,644.1kg with a split of 59.52% front/ 40.48% rear!
Better than the hatch, & if the extra 100kg of the R over the GTD is more rear weighted than the example I have done then ...hey even better front/rear balance!! Not only that because the extra weight is low down in the R estate (haldex/driveshafts) the moment of inertia (Polar/vertical) will be even better than in the GTD estate................the R estate might even be the best of the lot!............remember the old Audi RS2 Avant???..... I had just got my driving licence & first car when these came out......my god they were sexy.........

I think this will be a cool car, also the longer wheel base 'should' make the ride decent, providing VW have sorted out their quality control issues, we don't want another 'shock-gate' do we.

I'm still inclined to look at the Skoda Octavia MK3 VRS estate, I much prefer the look of that. It would mean me giving up the electronic handbrake, but hey-ho.

Mr_Jiminy said:

I think this will be a cool car, also the longer wheel base 'should' make the ride decent, providing VW have sorted out their quality control issues, we don't want another 'shock-gate' do we.

I'm still inclined to look at the Skoda Octavia MK3 VRS estate, I much prefer the look of that. It would mean me giving up the electronic handbrake, but hey-ho.

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shock-gate...cough cough................VW ?........no never...........

Skoda Octavia MK3 vrs?................no way had a look because my previous car was a MKI Fabia which I had from new 14yrs ago!!..............got out of the Octavia & the Rapid & when I got back into my Fabia (top end elegance with all electric windows, heated seats, ASR,EDL, etc)....the Octavia did not feel 14yrs newer & double (& abit) more than the Fabia!!!!

The golf on the other hand did!...also I recon the Golf will not "date" as much as the MK3 Octi!