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Helix Soundbox highs/mids sounds CRAP

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daniel2017

New member
Location
New York
Really need some audio help.

I drive a 2013 VW Golf Mk7 and I wasn’t happy with the audio quality. So I purchased a Helix soundbox, its a plug and play 5 channel amp/sub/DSP (http://www.volkswagen-accessories.com/en/product-ranges/infotainment/plug-and-play-soundsystem.html) I installed this myself over the weekend and chipped it with the dongle. I didnt want to do the whole ripping out the sterio and running too many cables and the reviews for this were strong.

However my problem is that I’m not happy with the sound quality. The bass appears okay and the whole system sounds okay at 30% volume but take it anywhere close to 50% or above and it sounds crap. Im not sure if its distorting or clipping at the higher frequencies. Im no audio expert but I’m wondering if its a simple problem to resolve. Perhaps an error with the wiring or the stock speakers not capable enough.

I think it outputs 35w and the stock speakers are 20w. Im not sure if thats RMS or total power numbers. All I know is the system is designed to work with the standard speakers but it just doesnt in my opinion.

Crank it up and its like parts of the sound are missing or sound rubbish. Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem?
 
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flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
daniel2017 said:
Really need some audio help.

I drive a 2013 VW Golf Mk7 and I wasn’t happy with the audio quality. So I purchased a Helix soundbox, its a plug and play 5 channel amp/sub/DSP (http://www.volkswagen-accessories.com/en/product-ranges/infotainment/plug-and-play-soundsystem.html) I installed this myself over the weekend and chipped it with the dongle. I didnt want to do the whole ripping out the sterio and running too many cables and the reviews for this were strong.

However my problem is that I’m not happy with the sound quality. The bass appears okay and the whole system sounds okay at 30% volume but take it anywhere close to 50% or above and it sounds crap. Im not sure if its distorting or clipping at the higher frequencies. Im no audio expert but I’m wondering if its a simple problem to resolve. Perhaps an error with the wiring or the stock speakers not capable enough.

I think it outputs 35w and the stock speakers are 20w. Im not sure if thats RMS or total power numbers. All I know is the system is designed to work with the standard speakers but it just doesnt in my opinion.

Crank it up and its like parts of the sound are missing or sound rubbish. Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem?
Click to expand...

I think the problem might be your hearing! How can you stand the output level at anywhere near 50% volume? That's WAY too loud for any stock or stock-ish system to hold up without clipping.

The issue is, you've got the Helix DSP/5-channel amp that is going to clip constantly at higher outputs, because it's not designed to crank as hard as you're cranking. There's nothing wrong with your Helix, that's just how it works, but you're asking too much of the system.

Your fix? Take the Helix 6-channel speaker level output into an AudioControl LC7i Line output Converter, bring the gain way down, take those RCA outs from the LC7i to a full sized, full bore 5 channel or 4 channel and mono sub amp combo, and $1500 later Bob's your uncle. Then you can crank the volume cleanly until your stock speakers light on fire, and drive a much larger sub to deeper frequencies than your stock head unit allows typically.
 
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flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
beardedGTI said:
Is your eq and balance/fade all flattened?
Click to expand...

Also this.

But still, depending on the media you're using, how it's mixed, how compressed/loud it is, 50% volume for me even on the cleanest, high bit rate MP3s and FLAC files will get some clipping in the midrange.
 
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daniel2017

New member
Location
New York
Thanks for all the comments. Yep I used the dongle correct and have the EQ all flat.

So is the sentiment that most people do not use this above 50% volume? would upgrading the speakers reducing the clipping (assuming its clipping)
 
B

beardedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Louisville, KY
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport 6mt
daniel2017 said:
So is the sentiment that most people do not use this above 50% volume? would upgrading the speakers reducing the clipping (assuming its clipping)
Click to expand...

I would say that's about accurate. 50% and higher approaches the threshold of pain for me. 30% is loud but comfortable volume for me.
 
J

jgar77

New member
If you're using Bluetooth from your phone, it helps to keep the volume in the device at about half and use the unit to turn the volume up or down if that makes sense. I find it to be cleaner and less distorted when the volume is not all the way up on the device.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
daniel2017 said:
Thanks for all the comments. Yep I used the dongle correct and have the EQ all flat.

So is the sentiment that most people do not use this above 50% volume? would upgrading the speakers reducing the clipping (assuming its clipping)
Click to expand...

Personally, beyond not needing more than 35-40% volume for most of the music I listen to (stuff is rattling, I can't hear traffic, emergency vehicles, my haters) I'd say that is a correct statement with the Helix box. Below 50% should cover your needs.

The clipping is either a factor of heat, or the amp being overworked (or both). It's possible that upgrading the speakers very strategically could help that, but would then reduce your speakers output while the sub output stayed the same.

To take strain off the amp you'd need to run higher (numerically) ohm rated speakers, which would reduce the wattage output of the amp. You'd need to use more volume knob to get the same output from the speakers, but the sub would still have it's original output. You could tone down the sub in this hypothetical with the small gain knob on the Helix DSP, but I'm not sure how much plus or minus that allows.

Example, (if) stock speakers are 2 ohm, you would want 4 ohm replacements. Effectively halving the load on the amp, and halving it's output.
 
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flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
jgar77 said:
If you're using Bluetooth from your phone, it helps to keep the volume in the device at about half and use the unit to turn the volume up or down if that makes sense. I find it to be cleaner and less distorted when the volume is not all the way up on the device.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This is only a good idea if you're mindful of other input's volume as well. Nothing worse than going from BT setup like this at 60% head unit volume to FM or CD where the volume is not adjustable. Ouch.
 
D

daniel2017

New member
Location
New York
I am using my phone, ill try turning it down on the device.... I guess I was just expecting much more and now im limited to only turning my stereo up by 50%
 
D

daniel2017

New member
Location
New York
flipflp said:
Personally, beyond not needing more than 35-40% volume for most of the music I listen to (stuff is rattling, I can't hear traffic, emergency vehicles, my haters) I'd say that is a correct statement with the Helix box. Below 50% should cover your needs.

The clipping is either a factor of heat, or the amp being overworked (or both). It's possible that upgrading the speakers very strategically could help that, but would then reduce your speakers output while the sub output stayed the same.

To take strain off the amp you'd need to run higher (numerically) ohm rated speakers, which would reduce the wattage output of the amp. You'd need to use more volume knob to get the same output from the speakers, but the sub would still have it's original output. You could tone down the sub in this hypothetical with the small gain knob on the Helix DSP, but I'm not sure how much plus or minus that allows.

Example, (if) stock speakers are 2 ohm, you would want 4 ohm replacements. Effectively halving the load on the amp, and halving it's output.
Click to expand...

I probably wouldnt want to do that because I already think its too bass heavy. Mine rattles too if I go to about 60%... Does this mean it will rattle the same if I put a high powered system in
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
daniel2017 said:
I probably wouldnt want to do that because I already think its too bass heavy. Mine rattles too if I go to about 60%... Does this mean it will rattle the same if I put a high powered system in
Click to expand...

You can bring the bass gain down with the small screw setting on the side of the Helix. It's been talked about a bit but I don't think anyone has ever quantified how much it changes the output, or even where it's normally set.

I just installed mine and left it, assumed it was "factory set" but who knows.

And yes, if you went from 2 x ~6" bass drivers with 100+ watts to anything larger you'd have a lot more rattling haha.
 
D

daniel2017

New member
Location
New York
flipflp said:
You can bring the bass gain down with the small screw setting on the side of the Helix. It's been talked about a bit but I don't think anyone has ever quantified how much it changes the output, or even where it's normally set.

I just installed mine and left it, assumed it was "factory set" but who knows.

And yes, if you went from 2 x ~6" bass drivers with 100+ watts to anything larger you'd have a lot more rattling haha.
Click to expand...

I thought that there might be a gain but i looked everywhere, i assume its on the side of the amp and not the speaker.... i wonder if i turn that down if it will allow the amp to run cooler and not clip the mids as much.

I was half tempted to go the alpine 5 channel route to get the volumn i want but if thats going to increase rattles then no way.

Arghhhh its looking like a 40% max volumn is looking like a reality. Its a shame because theres something phsycological i dont like about being limited to only turning it up so far. At this stage id probably pay VW to change how the progress bar worked if i could!!
 
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