GIAC MK7 VS Big turbo Cayman S

2015WhiteGTI · Jun 29, 2017

I will tell you that 90% of the car is the driver, especially if it's a manual.
I had a 2000 VW Golf GL manual and would walk a ton of people off the line and up till third gear. Then they'd blow bye me like I was standing still.
Reason: Driver mod. They couldn't drive worth a damn.

VAG keeps proving how quick his little car is over and over and over again. I don't think this is an anomaly. The Cayman may have been in the "right gear", but it still may not rev as quickly and reach peak power until later in the rev range. You don't want to be sitting at the limiter to start a race and have to bang a shift off right after it starts.
Also, the TPC stated ET and MPH in the quarter mile are from the factory - yes? Real world, in your own car, in different conditions can make a huge difference.

I don't know VAG at all, but I've seen what his car can do against other auto/dsg cars and it's quite impressive.

RjRacing · Jun 29, 2017

Nice kill man! So many factors in a street race can have a major difference in the outcome. Driver, fuel used, gearing, weight, tune, mechanical conditions ect. A wins a win though, not his fault that his car was running better that day and he could drive it to its full potential.

VAG*Tech said:
I just need to get the time to hit the strip, working 7 days a week I have a hard time balancing work and fun. I don't think I would ever be competition for RJ, even if I had a faster car I could never run those times in my part of the country. A car at the strips where he runs is going to run faster times than it would on any track in the pacific northwest by quite a bit. He has the perfect conditions to shoot for records, which is great for the platform, but not great for trying to keep up unless you are in similar conditions. He also runs nitromethane infused methenol, which I refuse to run in my car.

Elevation def plays a roll, as does track prep and conditions. We def have some of the fastest tracks in the country nearby, but my run was at 900ft DA and that can easily be matched by other tracks that have higher physical elevation on a better day too. It's not unusual to see -1000ft or more days in late winter/late fall around here, so I could def go faster too. The great thing about DA is that there are calculators online that the NHRA recognizes as being somewhat accurate to help understand the differences a car performs at higher or lower DA. Boosted cars in general have much less performance losses at altitude, especially ones with small turbos pushing 25psi+ that have ECU's that raise pressure to compensate for the losses... we are talking about a tenth or two and a mph or two difference according to the calculators recognized by the largest drag racing organization in the world.

As far as fuels used, I do not run the kinda nitromethane you are referring to lol. I run 93oct, sometimes with an E30-E35 blend and meth injection. My meth injection is a 700cc injector that only turns on under 15psi or more of boost and is scaled at 60%. My meth mixture is 50% VP M1 (pure methanol), 25% VP M5 and 25% water. Pure VP M5 is a methanol blend that runs less than 5% Nitro along with many other chemicals to stabilize it and has no further corrosion capabilities than methanol doesnt. So technically about 1% of my meth injection has a type of nitro methane in it, or a small fraction of my overall fuel in the combustion chamber does contain it

. I run meth injection simply for cooling purposes, not as a fuel supply... otherwise I would be running direct port injection. I have found through extensive testing and logs that the M5 blend does level out my ignition timing above 6000rpms (which is why I run it), but doesn't add any timing. As a matter of fact, I have tested running 100% M5 and saw major performance losses with my setup; timing loss, runs too rich, IATs higher and lots of inconsistencies.

Keep in mind I am still running an off the shelf APR IS38 ECU/TCU tune made for 93 oct on the back end. Race fuels and such have little to no benefit as they require different spark advance via tuning. There are also torque limiters still in place that I must work around and I am limited in what I can adjust with the JB4. My setup is maxed out with what I have, but a custom tune made by someone who know what they are doing along with the right hardware should be able to match or surpass what I have done.

Euro Tech · Jun 29, 2017

RjRacing said:
Nice kill man! So many factors in a street race can have a major difference in the outcome. Driver, fuel used, gearing, weight, tune, mechanical conditions ect. A wins a win though, not his fault that his car was running better that day and he could drive it to its full potential.

Elevation def plays a roll, as does track prep and conditions. We def have some of the fastest tracks in the country nearby, but my run was at 900ft DA and that can easily be matched by other tracks that have higher physical elevation on a better day too. It's not unusual to see -1000ft or more days in late winter/late fall around here, so I could def go faster too. The great thing about DA is that there are calculators online that the NHRA recognizes as being somewhat accurate to help understand the differences a car performs at higher or lower DA. Boosted cars in general have much less performance losses at altitude, especially ones with small turbos pushing 25psi+ that have ECU's that raise pressure to compensate for the losses... we are talking about a tenth or two and a mph or two difference according to the calculators recognized by the largest drag racing organization in the world.

As far as fuels used, I do not run the kinda nitromethane you are referring to lol. I run 93oct, sometimes with an E30-E35 blend and meth injection. My meth injection is a 700cc injector that only turns on under 15psi or more of boost and is scaled at 60%. My meth mixture is 50% VP M1 (pure methanol), 25% VP M5 and 25% water. Pure VP M5 is a methanol blend that runs less than 5% Nitro along with many other chemicals to stabilize it and has no further corrosion capabilities than methanol doesnt. So technically about 1% of my meth injection has a type of nitro methane in it, or a small fraction of my overall fuel in the combustion chamber does contain it . I run meth injection simply for cooling purposes, not as a fuel supply... otherwise I would be running direct port injection. I have found through extensive testing and logs that the M5 blend does level out my ignition timing above 6000rpms (which is why I run it), but doesn't add any timing. As a matter of fact, I have tested running 100% M5 and saw major performance losses with my setup; timing loss, runs too rich, IATs higher and lots of inconsistencies.

Keep in mind I am still running an off the shelf APR IS38 ECU/TCU tune made for 93 oct on the back end. Race fuels and such have little to no benefit as they require different spark advance via tuning. There are also torque limiters still in place that I must work around and I am limited in what I can adjust with the JB4. My setup is maxed out with what I have, but a custom tune made by someone who know what they are doing along with the right hardware should be able to match or surpass what I have done.

I am not trying to say that you would not have a fast car if not for the tracks you run at, I am saying for me to try and chase records when my tracks are always at 4-5000DA would be pointless as you have stated your car is maxed out and If I wanted to go chasing records it would be so close that what track you run at would matter a lot. I know what the calculators say but I can say that I have been to both coasts with the same car and I have found that there can be drastic differences in trap speeds even on a turbo car between them. As far as not using Meth for fueling, well that's not really the case, intentional or not you are using it for supplemental fuel, which is why you can run a 126mph trap with the stock LPFP in the first place. I was experimenting with a few different files and my car will starve for fuel on really aggressive maps, so methenol as a fuel supplement would help to prevent that. Just the slightest bit of nitro is all it takes to make huge gains in power, too much would start to pre-ignite it is a very fast burn and has almost no octane, so of course running too much of it would cause knock issues and a loss of performance, but with the right amount as you have found you can gain a lot of power. I wont run M5 because I dont want a freak knock occurrence to damage my engine. To clarify, your car is clearly faster than mine as they sit now, which should be a given considering I run pump fuel only.

RjRacing · Jun 29, 2017

VAG*Tech said:
I am not trying to say that you would not have a fast car if not for the tracks you run at, I am saying for me to try and chase records when my tracks are always at 4-5000DA would be pointless as you have stated your car is maxed out and If I wanted to go chasing records it would be so close that what track you run at would matter a lot. I know what the calculators say but I can say that I have been to both coasts with the same car and I have found that there can be drastic differences in trap speeds even on a turbo car between them. As far as not using Meth for fueling, well that's not really the case, intentional or not you are using it for supplemental fuel, which is why you can run a 126mph trap with the stock LPFP in the first place. I was experimenting with a few different files and my car will starve for fuel on really aggressive maps, so methenol as a fuel supplement would help to prevent that. Just the slightest bit of nitro is all it takes to make huge gains in power, too much would start to pre-ignite it is a very fast burn and has almost no octane, so of course running too much of it would cause knock issues and a loss of performance, but with the right amount as you have found you can gain a lot of power. I wont run M5 because I dont want a freak knock occurrence to damage my engine. To clarify, your car is clearly faster than mine as they sit now, which should be a given considering I run pump fuel only.

I completely agree about meth still being used as a fuel source, but it's not a reliable one with only one nozzle for all four cylinders as they aren't getting an equal cut of the supply. Race cars that run nitromethane usually run a 50-55% blend, its documented than gains usually aren't seen with less than a 5-10% mixture and my actual measurement of nitromethane is less than 0.5% of the total volume fuel inside of the combustion chamber. M5 has several other additives and chemicals other than nitro methane too btw, but they are very secretive about what exactly is in it and I have a strong suspicion something else in there is what is allowing my timing to maintain more stable.

Talon · Jun 29, 2017

digilio86 · Jun 29, 2017

RjRacing said:
There are also torque limiters still in place that I must work around and I am limited in what I can adjust with the JB4.

Care to elaborate on said limitations ? Doesn't the apr tune lift these or just increase ?

Vag and RJ I appreciate your detailed comments! I wasn't aware us east coasters had such an advantage at laying down good times.

How often do you go to Cecil RJ ? Gonna try and make it out there soon after my jb4 meth install is done.

Floader · Jun 30, 2017

Different platform at different power levels.... But I was able to pick up significant power switching to M5 from M1 on my old dsm setup at 30psi (2-3 degrees more timing)

RjRacing · Jun 30, 2017

Digilio86 said:
Care to elaborate on said limitations ? Doesn't the apr tune lift these or just increase ?

Vag and RJ I appreciate your detailed comments! I wasn't aware us east coasters had such an advantage at laying down good times.

How often do you go to Cecil RJ ? Gonna try and make it out there soon after my jb4 meth install is done.

You never lift the limiter, as things will break and not run correctly... but you raise them. There are not only limiters, but torque requests too that effect tuning too. I usually only go 3-4 times a year, But I have been twice this year so far. It's actually kind of a hole in the wall track IMO, one of the smaller and poorly maintained 1/4 mile tracks I have ever been to... but it's still an NHRA track that's cheap and produces results.

2slowvw · Jul 5, 2017

Actually glad i wandered into this thread. Crazy kill Vag, and thanks for some insight on the mixture RJ.

GIAC MK7 VS Big turbo Cayman S

2015WhiteGTI

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RjRacing

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Euro Tech

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Talon

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digilio86

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Floader

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RjRacing

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2slowvw

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