The Great Clutch debate!!!

[oddspyke]

I'm not as familiar with the DKM clutch option, but with those two options in mind it sounds like you are sticking with DMF. Is that correct?

Also, why wouldn't one want to go with a SMF? Is it mostly because of NVH? DMF's are a relatively new concept to me since my other cars have been SMF.

DKM is a SMF kit, but so far, reports are that it is quieter than the other SMF options out there. I'll be finding out for sure soon...

 

[steddy2112]

A lot of guys seem to like a heavy pedal. I am not one of those guys since my car is a daily and want it as easy as possible for both me and my wife. I know I can’t have everything and a new clutch holding more power will result in a heavier pedal, which is fine to some degree, but looking for the closest to stock as possible. I only plan on going stage 1. Any recommendations are appreciated.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fact:

I single disc clutch will have way more pedal effort with similar holding force compared to a twin disc clutch.

That's the point of a twin disc. All this holding 'power' with ease of use on the pedal. For this model year the Mustang GT's come with twin disc clutches and the 6th gen Corvette Z06 came with them too.

Don't get hung up with "stage" numbers and worrying about a heavy pedal.

If you want an easy to use clutch, look for something with an organic disc, if you want to hold over 400 ft-lbs(APR stage 2 is 404 at the crank which is what all clutches are rated at btw) stay away from any single disc clutch that's not TTRS setup IMO. You're keeping the DMF which will suck ass in performance driving. It'll be quiet, and you'll have to replace it eventually, but you do get less shock going through the transmission if you drive like the dude earlier talking about 6th gear clutch slip.

If you're basically going over 400 ft lbs(basically any stage 2 offering from any software out there) there's no clutch that's going to do the job better than the DKM twin disc. You're getting rid of the DMF, you are using organic discs that are forgiving so you don't have to worry about it being a lightswitch pedal, and the overall effort once broken in is maybe 20% more than stock. As for chatter, you can hear it if the radio is off. The injectors are still louder. You can only hear it at an absolute stand still, with your foot off the clutch pedal.

Everyone else's SMF setup's will chatter like hell and have all the pedal effort in the world because they're only using one disc to do the job instead of two.


TL;DR:

SMF: DKM Twin disc, it's their Stage 3 and good for 660 tq. This is like getting a DSG tune on a DSG car. It makes that much sense.

DMF: OEM TTRS deal. It's still not used on anything warrantied past 400 ft-lbs but the manufacturer rates it higher than what VW is throwing at it.

 

[steddy2112]

I'm not as familiar with the DKM clutch option, but with those two options in mind it sounds like you are sticking with DMF. Is that correct?

Also, why wouldn't one want to go with a SMF? Is it mostly because of NVH? DMF's are a relatively new concept to me since my other cars have been SMF.

DMF are for people who don't know how to drive.

It's there to add smoothness to the drive train when the drive train doesn't have, well, a lot of mass.

Hence why big crank cars(I-6's, V8s) have tiny little flywheels and seem smoother, because they have more drivetrain inertia making take-offs typically easier.

Small crank cars(I-4s) have always been deemed "unsmooth" due to the small rigid tinyboi cranks. A lot of that reputation also came in a time before everything had neutral balance shafts.

DMF's are also used to smooth the application of torque load to a drive train.

Read this:

https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-purpose-of-dual-mass-flywheel.aspx

 

[marauder]

Fact:

I single disc clutch will have way more pedal effort with similar holding force compared to a twin disc clutch.

That's the point of a twin disc. All this holding 'power' with ease of use on the pedal. For this model year the Mustang GT's come with twin disc clutches and the 6th gen Corvette Z06 came with them too.

Don't get hung up with "stage" numbers and worrying about a heavy pedal.

If you want an easy to use clutch, look for something with an organic disc, if you want to hold over 400 ft-lbs(APR stage 2 is 404 at the crank which is what all clutches are rated at btw) stay away from any single disc clutch that's not TTRS setup IMO. You're keeping the DMF which will suck ass in performance driving. It'll be quiet, and you'll have to replace it eventually, but you do get less shock going through the transmission if you drive like the dude earlier talking about 6th gear clutch slip.

If you're basically going over 400 ft lbs(basically any stage 2 offering from any software out there) there's no clutch that's going to do the job better than the DKM twin disc. You're getting rid of the DMF, you are using organic discs that are forgiving so you don't have to worry about it being a lightswitch pedal, and the overall effort once broken in is maybe 20% more than stock. As for chatter, you can hear it if the radio is off. The injectors are still louder. You can only hear it at an absolute stand still, with your foot off the clutch pedal.

Everyone else's SMF setup's will chatter like hell and have all the pedal effort in the world because they're only using one disc to do the job instead of two.


TL;DR:

SMF: DKM Twin disc, it's their Stage 3 and good for 660 tq. This is like getting a DSG tune on a DSG car. It makes that much sense.

DMF: OEM TTRS deal. It's still not used on anything warrantied past 400 ft-lbs but the manufacturer rates it higher than what VW is throwing at it.

Pretty well said and sums it up really well. Organic clutches are going to be great for a daily driving situation as the organic clutches are much better at slipping(rolling on/off the gas, and still holding the clutch in a bit) they are not on/off like other clutches.

What is good about this twin disk is it's an organic twin disk, which allows you to slip the clutch. From what i've been reading it doesn't have many of the pitfalls that a lot of twin disk clutches have, like whirring noises, and shuddering. From what I've read it can be a bit louder at start up as it prefers being warm, other than that it's supposed to be barely louder than stock. You get a SMF, but as the twin clutch weighs more than a single clutch you're not actually losing that much weight, but with the FW being lighter you still get some of the SMF benefits.

The TTRS pressure plate paired with the TDI clutch pack is a great option for a DMF with minimal pedal effort increase and noise. THe issue is that it lacks the clamping force of some of the other setups, so running is38 on it, you're going to be near the limit. That and DMF wheels don't last as long as the springs wear out. The shelf life is unknown at this point, but you'll never face that issue with an SMF.

The TTRS setup, if done the DIY way and not the RSR way is the cheapest clutch upgrade option. The DKM kit is very cheap. People are mentioning prices as low as $1200 for their stage 3 kit, which is the kit to get, as the stage 2 has a much lower torque rating, and the price savings isn't worth, and you don't have the pedal effort issue to worry about on their stages.

 

[Oldschoolmk7]

Damn, $1100 for dkm stage 3 is no brainer. I do not need a clutch and should not for a while, but...

 

[BravoMike]

Excellent information and much appreciated!

I have done all the "mods" possible to my MT, but it still doesn't have the feel of what I would like. Now, like many here, I'm looking at my upgraded clutch options.