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High Gas prices

BrianfCheng1

Ready to race!
Location
Queens NYC
I paid $4.09 for a gallon of 93 in NYC last week. I've already seen prices as high as $4.25.
These gas prices are making me want to live in Jersey. They got the lowest prices in the country i heard?
I wish NYC gas stations offered 91 octane, at least i would have the option to switch.
 

ElectricEye

Autocross Newbie
Location
Central NJ
Really? Really????

Yes really.
I didn't want one.
At least wouldn't spend my money on one.

Neither did or would most Americans - not for the EV, and not at the time it was offered.
 

Cackalacka

Ready to race!
Location
NC
Yes really.
I didn't want one.
At least wouldn't spend my money on one.

Neither did or would most Americans - not for the EV, and not at the time it was offered.

Very interesting that you have chosen to extrapolate your preferences across hundreds of millions of North American motorists.

Hell, if the LEAF came out this summer rather than last, and I was in a region they marketed to, I probably would have snapped one up rather than a GTI. Very different cars, I'll admit, but both would satisfy the main reason why I have a car: getting me to and from work.

Granted, I don't live in a cold climate that would compromise the range, my commute is ~50 miles a day (total), I own my house (so dropping a couple Gs on a charger wouldn't be a bad investment) and last, but not least, my fiancee has two ICE vehicles that we could use for road-trips.

I'm guessing you did not see the movie. If you had, you would have noticed that there were a variety of factors that buried the EV1; most of the trial-consumers were very happy with their leases, and would have presumably continued leasing, had GM continued to offer them (some went to great lengths in an attempt to keep them.)

Oh, and GM started to mass-market the Hummer the exact same time they drew down the program. There's a tin-foil head scratcher for ya.

Tens of thousands of folks put deposits down for LEAFs and Volts; sure the technology is still maturing.

I assembled and converted a regular bike into an hub-driven electric bike with SLAs three years ago. The thing is assloads of fun; back then LiPo/Lion technology was even more bleeding edge; if I were to redesign my bike, the bike would have cost $400 more, but the range would have been 10x and thing would weigh 1/2 of what it does. Oh, and I'd be able to commute with a lithium-based bike any season save for winter, getting to work via state parks in around an hour. Right now, when I strike for home on the glorified 8-lane parking lot interstate, my travel time can greatly exceed this. If I up the technology, thing can pay for itself within a matter of MONTHS, if not weeks (re: gas and car depreciation.)

It is a mistake to assume your preferences hold for the wider public, or even for yourself (ask yourself does a LEAF/Volt/EV1 make sense to you if gas were flirting with prices our friends in Finland are paying.)

There is a misconception that the automakers cater to N. American tastes. Henry Ford's color choices for the T, or the availability and variety of hatchbacks vs small sedans (HA!) belie this notion.

Automakers have a distinct incentive to sell us the most profitable outputs possible, and profitable is, by it's very essence, not economical. It is to their advantage to market inefficiencies; these inefficiencies are internalized by the customers, and turned into tastes. But they're not tastes, they're merely perceptions of tastes.

And in the end, you have legions of assholes buying 5,000 lb moving apartments, simultaneous to a whole feast of awful shit going down, to support/as a result of, said moving apartments.
 

McQueen77

Banned
Location
Not Kentucky
Yes really.
I didn't want one.
At least wouldn't spend my money on one.

Neither did or would most Americans - not for the EV, and not at the time it was offered.

I didn't want one either, nor do I anytime in the near future. Fact: Most of the electricity in the United States is still generated from fossil fuels, such as coal, natural gas, and oil. Its not like you are making some massive environmental dent by buying electric. For me, the GTI was just right and mileage definitely played a part in my buying decision. Something that definitely pushed me away from the BMW camp, besides price, is that the 328i w/its straight 6 averaged about 8 mpg less overall than the GTI without any real tangible performance advantage (except maybe RWD). I wanted a fun factor without guzzling gas.
 

Cackalacka

Ready to race!
Location
NC
Fact: Most of the electricity in the United States is still generated from fossil fuels, such as coal, natural gas, and oil.

Fact: many fossil fuel plants are more efficient than ICE engines.

Another fact: I've got high-tension wires in my back-yard that wind 20 miles all the way down to a nuclear plant. If I owned an EV, save for hot summer days when my grid is pumping past capacity, 100% of my driving would be carbon-neutral.
 

krische

vdubber in training
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I didn't want one either, nor do I anytime in the near future. Fact: Most of the electricity in the United States is still generated from fossil fuels, such as coal, natural gas, and oil. Its not like you are making some massive environmental dent by buying electric. For me, the GTI was just right and mileage definitely played a part in my buying decision. Something that definitely pushed me away from the BMW camp, besides price, is that the 328i w/its straight 6 averaged about 8 mpg less overall than the GTI without any real tangible performance advantage (except maybe RWD). I wanted a fun factor without guzzling gas.

Let's say all cars on the road are electric. What is easier to maintian? Millions of ICEs or a few thousand power plants? What is easier to implement new technologies on? Millions of ICEs or a few thousand power plants?

Today most power plants use fossil fuels, so if everyone were to use electric cars, it wouldn't remove our dependency of fossil fuels. But it would make it a lot easier to reach that final step.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, most of the coal used by power plants in the US comes from the US or Canada. It doesn't come from countries known to harbor terrorist organizations or perform massive human rights violations.
 

CMD

Ready to race!
Location
Muskoka
Yes really.
I didn't want one.
At least wouldn't spend my money on one.

Neither did or would most Americans - not for the EV, and not at the time it was offered.

Just cause you didnt want one doesn't mean there weren't people who did want them and found them to meet a true need. As I recall Mel Gibson stated in the Who Killed the Electric Car movie, he has never had such a difficult time trying to purchase a vehicle - they clearly did not want to move these vehicles. Additionally, the fact that GM (and other manufactures) went to such great lengths to pull off the road and destroy ever single one of the vehicles sent a pretty clear message they didnt want anyone being reminded of what could be a great alternative mode of transport that could meet the needs of a particular market (specifically those urban drivers who commute relatively short periods a day). I can't help but wonder how GM would have weathered the last few years had they continued to manufacture EV's from the initial launch by Saturn. They would have had the first to market advantage by many years and even if they weren't selling mass volumes, selling moderate numbers for 15 years add up.

Most Americans don't want the Golf R (believe VW said they intend to ship/sell a mere 5000 units) but does that mean they shouldn't make it?
 

O-III

Ready to race!
Location
Ottawa
Thank goodness I'm getting 7.5 l/100km (just over 31 MPG US) on the highway . But it still cost me $60.00 to fill up this morning at $1.26 a litre and local prices are still rising.
 

path

Ready to race!
Location
USA
Electric cars seem to not be the answer to me, know how much of our nation's electricity is produced by...gas?

just to clarify...natural gas is used to produce electricity, not gasoline.

but i agree with your greater point. cheap and reliable electricity could be produced in abundance with nuclear energy...if there was a nuclear power plant in every state, every manufacturer would produce electric cars.

of course this country has not produced a new nuclear power plant in more than 30 years.
 

fatty@golfmk6.com

Go Kart Champion
Location
Boston, MA
E
But then you have to ask yourself, how much does the moped or bike cost. How long will it take you to recoup that cost in fuel savings?

If fuel rises $1.50 a gallon it takes about 11 gallons to fill up that's $16.50 more per tank. That is $858 a year if you fill up once per week. Factor in the operating costs of the bike or moped (insurance, maintenance etc.) how many years will it take before you're actually saving money? And you're stuck riding a moped instead of the beloved GTI.

Excellent point my friend. Well there is only one logical move to make. Time to win the lottery!
 

danielj1

Go Kart Champion
Location
Seattle WA
Wish our prices were that low. We are currently paying around $2.11 per litre in the UK

Aren't a large portion of your fuel costs due to taxes?
 

Cackalacka

Ready to race!
Location
NC
Excellent point my friend. Well there is only one logical move to make. Time to win the lottery!

Very important distinctions, to be sure. No sense in dropping 30k to save 3k in gas.

But, it's equally important to remember that cars are rapidly depreciating assets. If I can invest $1000 today that would alleviate the wear and tear on my car, is that a worthwhile investment? Depends. If I am driving what I drove last summer (beater car with 215k on it), no. If I'm driving a new GTI, yes.

...

I may have to research lithium battery prices... If I can pull myself out of my car for 2-3 commutes a week this summer, that's ~4-6 gallons and ~100-150 miles of depreciation I can alleviate each week. And this isn't quality country road driving. This is sit in 95-100° eight-lane while grinding out 1st-3rd gear nonsense. It may be time to resuscitate my EV project.
 

Bender1

Banned
Location
Doylestown, PA
Didnt Mythbusters do a special on dirty vs. clean car and find that dirty cars get better mileage?

They found clean car was better unless the dirt was in a perfectly uniform golf ball shape.
 
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