Corner balancing worth the cost?

[AR11]

I'm about to upgrade to height adjustable coilovers and am faced with the decision to corner balance or not. The alternative to corner balancing would involve carefully measuring ride height and trying to adjust to within 1/8".

I've never corner balanced a car in the past but the more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems not to when I could easily be of by 1/4".

A local motorsports-focused shop quoted $260 for the balance and $160 for alignment.

 

[Swoope]

I'm about to upgrade to height adjustable coilovers and am faced with the decision to corner balance or not. The alternative to corner balancing would involve carefully measuring ride height and trying to adjust to within 1/8".

I've never corner balanced a car in the past but the more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems not to when I could easily be of by 1/4".

A local motorsports-focused shop quoted $260 for the balance and $160 for alignment.

if you dont track your car a whole bunch, and almost at the last .10 of second matters on R compound tires. no you dont need it.

actually the fact that you asked the question answers the question.. i dont mean that in a bad way, just when you are there you will know.

that is just my opionion, i could be wrong. but you can spend your money however you like..

btw, i have a dedicated track car with a non height adjustable suspension but with adjustable shocks. i also have a set of totally adjustable coilovers for it, they will go on early next year. they will not be corner balanced. but i likely will adjust ride height with weight in driver seat, and align the same way.

beers

 

[RacingManiac]

Realistically all that means is someone with a set of scales will do the adjustment, and they charge a lot of money for it. The amount of money they charged seems like a lot. But I've always known someone with scales, and my car is not adjustable ride height, so I can't really relate. But I am with swoope though, unless you are really looking for that last 5%, the amount of corner weight you are off if you got even rideheight and more or less symmetric alignment, it wouldn't be enough to matter.

 

[AR11]

I'm definitely not of the opinion that my skill level warrants some very high level of corner balancing but rather I'm mostly just worried that it will be grossly off if I don't have it properly done on scales.

For example, most DIY instructions say that the scale heights must be leveled to within 1/16" but I'm pretty sure that I could end up being 1/4" - 1/2" off of "balanced" using a ride height measuring approach.

The tolerances needed for the scales leads me to believe that I could end up being way off if I just "wing it".

 

[2015WhiteGTI]

I've raced for years in the SCCA, BMWCCA and AER and have never raced a car that was corner balanced. BMW's are much easier to balance since they usually start at 50/50 weight balance as well.

TBH: If you're driving the car on the street it's going to look VERY odd as none of the gaps will be even. The $260 for corner balancing is actually quite low. This usually takes hours upon hours of trial and error to get it right. Adjusting the suspension, then putting it on the scales and then adjusting back and forth till you get it where you want it. Remember, you have to have a ballast sitting in the drivers seat that essentially weighs as much as you do. Even with the AWD in your R, the weight bias is definitely up front and will more than likely never get to an even weight distribution.

IMHO: Not worth it at all.

 

[RacingManiac]

FYI, its not the weight distribution he is looking for when you are doing corner weight, its the cross weight. You want the cross weight to be 50/50. As in the weight on the FL and RR or the FR and RL are 50/50. What you are adjusting is spring perch so that they have the right amount of preload. Normal order of operation is you would set your ride height to about what you want(on a level ground, or a setup pad), and then adjust corner weight until you get the right cross weight. Then what you get at that point ride height wise is what you get. Should not be grossly off, if the car was on a flat enough ground. It is also important to disconnect the anti-roll bar as that can add some binding and screws up the corner weight also.

I doubt you can feel your corner weight being off, unless its grossly off, which I think if you set your ride height on somewhat level ground, you really shouldn't be.

 

[SteveM3]

I do tons of alignments and corner balancing. If a decent brand sportscar comes in that has already been set at equal ride heights, I can usually get the crosses in 2-4 changes. It can sometimes take longer to set up my platform and plug in the scales lol. It's def the icing on the cake for track guys, but imo as long as all 4 wheels are pointed in the right general direction and you have good rubber, and can drive decently, you will do well. All other things equal though, and the corner balance can be the difference maker.

 

[AR11]

I do tons of alignments and corner balancing. If a decent brand sportscar comes in that has already been set at equal ride heights, I can usually get the crosses in 2-4 changes. It can sometimes take longer to set up my platform and plug in the scales lol. It's def the icing on the cake for track guys, but imo as long as all 4 wheels are pointed in the right general direction and you have good rubber, and can drive decently, you will do well. All other things equal though, and the corner balance can be the difference maker.

What sorts of cross weights have you seen pre-balance and how far off is considered bad? It seems like most people get it to within 1% of 50/50 when doing it on scales.

 

[Swoope]

funny,

i have spent the evening looking for tire options that will let me afford to get back into the 200 tw catagory.. but damn they make it hard if you want to run 18 inch wheels.. have been playing the pss game for ~ 18 months..

i started track events it a overprepared rx8.. doing what your are doing.. the last year i have spent in the gti with the 17 inch rx8 wheels and tires, pretty much stock..

and learning lots. i am much faster in the rx8. but i am learning more right now..

simple advice. drive the car stock for at least 5 track weekends, or until you find a problem. the first for you is going to be a toss up between brakes and tires.. and harder the two are very interrelated. so if you have an issue do the brakes first, pads only and just front.

after that fix the problem after that will likely be tires..

after that worry about suspension and all that comes with it..

so take the ~1k you want to spend now and just learn how do drive the car and what it wants.. the car is fine it is you that is slow.. but once again you can piss away money however your like. i dont have a go fund me page, but if you want to send me a tire! lol!

i got a point by from randy probst in a 89 civic at sebring, it was stock. and damn if i did not have to work at it.. that kinda covers it..

beers

 

[MeltedSolid]

That is a lot of money for corner balance and alignment! I got mine done for $135 and $125 respectively by a local who is very highly regarded here (it probably helped that my coilovers have an adjustable shock body, so they didn't ever need to be removed). It was a bit expensive for what it's worth, but it's nice to know that my car is setup to perfection. It turns out I got lucky with eyeballing as my rears were within 5 lbs of each other, but the fronts were ~100 lbs off (now ~25lbs off with me in it).

Keep in mind that a perfectly corner balanced car will not be at the same height at all four corners because of the weight of the driver and other asymmetries in the car. I don't know the general rules for how to set it off the top of my head, but I remember it being counter intuitive, you would have to look it up.

 

[RacingManiac]

I'm not sure where the lots of time and trial and error comes from. The most time spent(granted this was a single seater, so adjustments are more accessible, but the principle should be the same), should be actually getting your platform/scale leveled. The rest is just turning knobs. Get the sway bars disconnected, steering wheel straight, tire pressure set even. Set your ride height, set your camber and toe. Look at the cross weight, adjust only 1 corner(either the one with the most or the least weight on it). In theory it shouldn't take too or too many tries.

 

[SteveM3]

What sorts of cross weights have you seen pre-balance and how far off is considered bad? It seems like most people get it to within 1% of 50/50 when doing it on scales.

I've seen some in the low to mid 40's. They usually take a bit of work to unwind the chassis, ups and downs on opposite sides to keep ride heights from moving too far. When we get a set of dampers back from a refresh or something and nobody marked the collar heights it can be a process. Some times you have compromises, if a car is left side heavy or front heavy, you need to decide whether to mess up ride height or try to keep the front tires with relatively equal weight or end up with one corner on the back being light. That's how our E36 M3 racer scales out. I can have the fronts within a few lbs, but my RR comes in light. Cross is not too bad, usually 49-51, but if I wanted I could land it on 50-50. I like to keep the fronts as level and equal in weight as possible, it helps under braking with the ABS system. If we put the full size battery back in the RR it would be perfect but we take the overall weight saving instead.

I had the GTI on the scales back in May, obviously no corner balancing but I do have the factory weight distribution. I have it at the shop and will pop it up in here tomorrow.

 

[breaking badly]

Don't believe the hype.

Adjusting corner weights on a daily driver is a waste of money and time.



I understand some won't like that, so let me explain why. Well, I'm say-
ing that as someone who already had this done several times and has
friends who had it done. But I also know when it makes sense and when
it does not.
It does make lots of sense when you have a race car. It does also do
make some sense when you track frequently and have Clubsport coils
fitted with spring rates 2 or 3 times higher than standard (say, some-
where at 400 or 500 lbs). It does make sense when there's one specific
state for which you want to optimize your car for (one driver alone, no
cargo of course, 3/4 of fuel etc.).

Does anyone think that's the case on a daily driver? Obviously not.

I'm about to upgrade to height adjustable coilovers and am faced with the decision to corner balance or not. The alternative to corner balancing would involve carefully measuring ride height and trying to adjust to within 1/8".

Just to avoid some common misconception, never try to even out unequal
wheel gaps by adjusting your coilovers. Of course you could adjust front +
rear even (or to some degree to your liking), but never adjust left + right
differently without having scales on hand. Typically left and right must be
adjusted equally based on the threads. Ignoring this would mean that your
corner weights get completely off, much more compared to stock/standard.

You may have read that already:

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?p=340025#post340025

It was a bit expensive for what it's worth, but it's nice to know that my car is setup to perfection.

Let me correct that for you, "setup to some imagination of perfection".

(honestly)

Keep in mind that a perfectly corner balanced car will not be at the same height at all four corners because of the weight of the driver and other asymmetries in the car.

Selfevidently, corner weight adjustment only makes sense with
the driver (or equivalent weight) on its seat. Likewise, it must
be clear, that corner weights are off with passengers in the car,
with cargo or perhaps even with a different fuel fill (not on 4WD
R with its symmetrical saddle style tank).

 

[AR11]

I'm definitely not getting any point bys by Randy Pobst soon but I do see some track time and while this car is my daily driver it will also get 6-8 days on track per year. That is why I posted in this section after all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77UjPCfpBoY

Just putting it out there for context.

 

[rexneffect]

On my subaru, I corner weighted it by only adjusting upwards on any cross-corner totals that needed adjustment. The ride got noticeably more comfortable and the car handled better over uneven patches. So there's that. I think it's worth it if you have coil overs to adjust them properly.

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