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Old 05-16-2019, 05:23 PM   #35
GOLF 4 LIFE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGriff86 View Post
Just found this. https://www.valvoline.com/en-austral...xl-iv-c5-0w-20

Leads me to believe we'll get more 508/509 approvals for other oils hopefully soon.
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Originally Posted by AspektZA View Post
Do the 2019 say you must use VW 508 oil? Or is VW502/504 acceptable?

BMW says you can use LL-01 (5w-30/40) in lieu of FE14++ (0w-20) with no issue.
I hope that more companies producing the 508.00 0W20 oil will mean that the price will drop some. Also I hope that valvoline makes the 508.00 approved oil available in 5L containers not just 20L.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AspektZA View Post
Do the 2019 say you must use VW 508 oil? Or is VW502/504 acceptable?

BMW says you can use LL-01 (5w-30/40) in lieu of FE14++ (0w-20) with no issue.
The manual says VW 508 00 0w20 and gives no alternatives.

Interestingly, the 2019 Golf R still uses 5w30 or 5w40.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:29 PM   #37
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My Wife's old 2007 Jeep wrangler called for 5W-20. Don't know what her new Grand Cherokee calls for yet. My Civic called for 5W-20... The SAE 20 doesn't really seem to be a new thing? I want 0W for start up. I want that oil flowing. So 0W-20 seems like its been a long time coming for VW. I'm sure its been in R&D for the last few years. I read somewhere that every engine start is the same wear as driving 300miles at normal operating temp due to the lack of oil flowing for that split second on start.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:37 AM   #38
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Just get your oil changed at the dealer when they run oil change specials until 0w-20 508 is readily available. Glad my 18 is still requiring 5w-40. So easy to find these for $12-15 a jug.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:05 AM   #39
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Walmart has Castrol Edge SAE 0W-20 Advanced Full Synthetic Fluid Titantium Technology 5qrts for $22, except it doesn't say VW 508, but i bet you all its exactly the same shit that they're selling to VW. minus the extra ink used to print VW508 spec on the back.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:07 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by GTI-Jay View Post
Walmart has Castrol Edge SAE 0W-20 Advanced Full Synthetic Fluid Titantium Technology 5qrts for $22, except it doesn't say VW 508, but i bet you all its exactly the same shit that they're selling to VW. minus the extra ink used to print VW508 spec on the back.
I’ll take that bet! I couldn’t find Castrol but here’s two 0w-20 oils from SOPUS(Pennzoil). Hint, they’re not the same.
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...a71a9fe89b.pdf
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...607780130a.pdf
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Huntermike View Post
I’ll take that bet! I couldn’t find Castrol but here’s two 0w-20 oils from SOPUS(Pennzoil). Hint, they’re not the same.
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...a71a9fe89b.pdf
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...607780130a.pdf
Here's Castrol

Regular 0w20
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/73A258BA225A396680257D03006D47BE/$File/EDGE%20US%20PDS.pdf

508/509 0w20
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/29BEF52F6D53D75E802582F3006B6939/$File/BPXE-AKE6LY.pdf

The pour points are different, so the 508 stuff has a different basestock.
Viscosities are different also.

MSDS lists 508 stuff as having Group III & IV basestocks where the regular 0w20 is all Group III
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by DiscusInferno View Post
Here's Castrol

Regular 0w20
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/73A258BA225A396680257D03006D47BE/$File/EDGE%20US%20PDS.pdf

508/509 0w20
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/29BEF52F6D53D75E802582F3006B6939/$File/BPXE-AKE6LY.pdf

The pour points are different, so the 508 stuff has a different basestock.
Viscosities are different also.

MSDS lists 508 stuff as having Group III & IV basestocks where the regular 0w20 is all Group III
Another way to look at the differences between an API SN+ oil and a ACEA C5(which 508 00 starts from) is in this chart:

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Old 05-23-2019, 02:42 PM   #43
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^^ its all fair and well and thanks for the research, however they've not re-engineered the engine in any way. The EA888 from 2015-2018 ran fine on 5W-40 VW502, so its really not exactly going to make any real world difference, apart from satisfying some EPA bureaucrat going with 0w-20 vs 5w-40... And using Castol Edge vs Castrol Edge 508 isn't exactly going to grenade your engine either.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:39 PM   #44
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EPA estimates for the GTI... from 2018 to 2019, the mileage roughly stayed the same. Comparing estimates for 6MT, the 2019 with 508.00 got roughly 4% worse fuel economy, not the 4% improved fuel economy that 508.00 is supposed to give.

SN+ also addresses the phenomena of Low Speed Pre-Ignition on GDI engines, which when you do a VOA, you'll see that Calcium levels drop, in exchange for Magnesium level to rise.

It is thought that excessive Calcium sulfonate (that's the detergent), contributes to LPSI.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by GTI-Jay View Post
^^ its all fair and well and thanks for the research, however they've not re-engineered the engine in any way. The EA888 from 2015-2018 ran fine on 5W-40 VW502, so its really not exactly going to make any real world difference, apart from satisfying some EPA bureaucrat going with 0w-20 vs 5w-40... And using Castol Edge vs Castrol Edge 508 isn't exactly going to grenade your engine either.
Agreed in all respects. If I owned a VAG that spec’d 508 I would research it(like you) and see what changes were made to any internally lubricated part from the oil pump to the journals. If there were no change I would find myself a readily available and cheap 502 or 504 oil and be happy.

The switch to low HTHS oils is because of emissions regulations, not wear. Most of the heat put into the engine oil is from the oil itself. If you keep a bearing in hydrodynamic lubrication you prevent wear but heat the oil. If you use up the oil film you are in boundary lubrication and wear the engine parts. The “mixed lubrication” zone is where you have the least friction. It relies on the additives like Mg, Ca, Ti to prevent metal to metal contact. Look at the Stribek Curve if you want to go down the rabbit hole.

I just don’t want someone to run and buy the cheapest 20 grade oil and run it 15k miles between changes. Or worse yet go to a quickee lube and get a bulk oil.
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:31 AM   #46
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Picking up my 2019 GTI later this week. Reading this thread with extreme interest. Keep the comments coming.
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:47 PM   #47
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Yeah, I've read all the way through that... But this is an oil thread and thats a 2019 stalling thread. Anyone with a 2018 or earlier mk7 have a good baseline operating oil temp on the 5w-30 or 5w-40? I have almost 1,400mi on the odo and the highest I've seen is 225F with an OAT 72F after a ~30mi trip from work starts with highway then ends with relatively frequent stoplights/signs. This is on 0W-20 Castrol Edge. If I'm seeing ~220F on 0W-20 and someone with 5W-30/40 is seeing 220F... I'd think the oil is doing it's job, preventing metal on metal? I dunno. Also, at 1,400mi my "extended period" mpg is 31.3... 31.3 and 220F on 0W-20... I would like to see other numbers people are seeing on both the 0W-20 and 5W-30/40 or hell 0W-40(which I personally think is probably the way to go).
Maybe in a couple of my posts in that thread, I did mention that I saw oil temp at ~230 with my earlier stalls. I frequently saw temps staying at around 225. These were on the hottest, muggiest days so far (90-92 F). Lately, I've noticed oil temp sits around 220-222, but it's been milder. Recent ~500 mile trip on the interstate, it stayed right about there.

I'm now at 1100 miles and planning to do my first oil change. I think I just feel safer sticking to the recommended oil for now, while I spend however long it will take, going forward, dealing with the stalling issue and getting a proper fix. I don't really want to give VW any sort of reason to deny a claim or diagnose as user error. ....to that end, I do need to bring it back to the service station because it has occurred about 5 more times after taking it to them the first time. So, I think I will also stick to dealer oil changes until that time (also, no real means to do it myself right now--though I'd like to get an extractor and get back into actual home car maintenance again....it's been a while).

Any idea if taking to a non-dealer "certified VW mechanic" would cause possible warranty issues, or is that even a thing that actually exists? I do have some more local guys that are VW specialists and are apparently doing warranty services, but I don't really know what that means, tbh. I'm not very convenient to a VW dealership/service station so was hoping I could stick to one of the nearby guys for routine stuff.

AFAIK, I don't get free oil changes and even so, if that means the dealership that I bought it from, that's a 60+ mile round trip, so no thanks.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:44 PM   #48
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Just gee whiz to add (and apologies if specifically mentioned, I don't recall the earlier parts) I had to add some to my 2019 yesterday. I double-checked the manual in case. It stated the 508 mentioned, but said if needed and the 508 is not available (which it didn't seem to be in the small town I was in) then you can top off with no more than 1/2 qt of VW 502/504 in the 5W-30/5W-40 viscosity (maybe 0W-40 as well, can't remember the last one). They made it sound dire in the manual, but the only side effect it said was that using the substitute would slightly affect gas mileage (manual actually says slightly).

If that is really all it could affect I don't see why they'd go on about only using a half quart with all bold lettering and warnings. TBH if I can use a 502/504 and get it locally for half the price using Mobil 1, Castrol Edge non-Pro, or whatever I have no problem losing 1MPG or so.

I need to have a chat with my local dealership to see what they're using. I'd rather go with a more durable option as well than worrying about 1-2 MPG and having to top it off more often.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:07 PM   #49
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Has anyone been able to confirm ANY changes to warrant use of 508 0W-20 vs. the formerly recommended 502 5W-40? Other than to fastidiously conform to warranty fear, is there any VALID reason to use it? Who is planning to be a rebel and use the 502, 0W-20 be damned?
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Shortybdub View Post
Has anyone been able to confirm ANY changes to warrant use of 508 0W-20 vs. the formerly recommended 502 5W-40? Other than to fastidiously conform to warranty fear, is there any VALID reason to use it? Who is planning to be a rebel and use the 502, 0W-20 be damned?
I can't positively confirm but from comments from other more knowledgeable members, it seems the only real change in 2019 is the oil pump. So that might be the only issue, but it seems to work just fine with 502 for other owners. AFAIK, that is the only difference mechanically, but the ECU is also new for 2019. Could be that the related issues are just some oversight in the ECU not being coded to address the new pump and oil spec, so it's still expecting timing, pressure, measurements, whatever, that you would get with a 2018 and earlier engine on the 502 spec and the previous pump....that's my thinking, anyway. But I don't really know how any of this works.

When tuned, I think 502 is still required?

VW still goes with 502 for the 2019 R, according to the manual.

Oh, and I'm also up by several more stalls since my post last week. Up to 16 now (through yesterday), with basically 10 of those occurring in the last 2 weeks, so much higher frequency. I am confident that I can replicate it now, because I've been paying more attention and figured out to force it, mostly using the stall protocol recommended by another user (3/3 stalls on 2019 GTIs for him, so far tested). My specific reason for being fastidious with the oil spec, because of warranty, is simply because I have a legit issue and I don't want to give VW any reason to deny it because of actions that they did not perform.

I think VW service actually did replace the oil in one owner having stall issues with 502. But that didn't seem to fix their problem. In other cases, at least one owner seems to have done it themselves, and that seems to have stopped the stalls.

There is a new link in VWVortex, reposted in the stall thread here, about one owner that may have fixed his simply by pumping the clutch and brakes several times. He noticed that his clutch seemed to be catching and thought it was a hydraulics issue (I notice that my clutch is a bit slippery from time to time--it was suggested that this is related to that delay valve thingy that should really be removed...which I may indeed do, once the stall is fixed. ...or maybe that fixes it? Dunno. I get the feeling that a lot of owners with more experience probably do these quick modifications from the beginning, just because of familiarity, and so never experience this issue because somewhere within those mods, this problem lies and they have fixed it without knowing it, heh).

Last edited by zinfamous; 06-15-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:47 AM   #51
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I was trying to buy a kit online for my 2019 gli. Nothing seems to be available for any of the 2019 stuff and Ed’s has 2 different oils. The 0w 20 and the 5 40 stuff. I don’t give a crap about the gas mileage, would rather have the thicker oil but it doesn’t sound like there is a consensus that it’s ok.

I’m assuming the 2019 fit and gli are using the same oil since the engine is the same. If going 0 20 what brand is recommended?
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