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Old 05-02-2019, 07:24 PM   #35
mindonmatter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLF 4 LIFE View Post
I'd be interested in knowing what oil others are using in there 2019> GTIs.
As I'll be doing an early oil and filter on mine being that Volkswagen now
calls for 508.00 0W20.
I do feel that there are better oil choices than castrol.
Yes I will be using an OEM VW oil filter.
After much research on this subject, I'm sticking with 502.00 on my 2019 GTI. From what I can gather, the switch to 508.00 0w20 was for MPG reasons, and not due to any internal engine changes, and certainly not because 0w20 is better for a performance turbo engine. Funny, the 2019 Golf R still recommends 502.00 5w40.

Since my car will be tuned and no engine warranty anyways, I'll stick with 5w40 502.00 like the R. Volkswagen clearly thinks it's the better oil for a higher performance engine. Eff MPG. I keep my cars 200k miles. If you don't mod your cars and don't keep them past warranty expires, who cares.

Just my opinion.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:02 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mindonmatter View Post
Funny, the 2019 Golf R still recommends 502.00 5w40.
Are you sure? I thought I recall that later in the year production of even the 2018 Rs listed only the 504(/507) certification under the hood.


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Originally Posted by mindonmatter View Post
I'll stick with 5w40 502.00 like the R. Volkswagen clearly thinks it's the better oil for a higher performance engine.
I am not sure why you think VW considers a 502 oil the "better oil" given that the 504/507 rating is the more demanding one. (And so I use the 504/507 rated oils in our 2018 R and UOAs have confirmed that these 0W30/5W30 oils protect very well.)
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:11 PM   #37
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I didn't say 502 was better than 504. You're right, 504 even better. My point was 502 is better than 508.00 0w20 for my application.

Just double checked my 2019 manual, but yes it shows 502 or 504 for the Golf R. No 508.00.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mindonmatter View Post
My point was 502 is better than 508.00 0w20 for my application.
Is a 504 rated oil not 'permitted' for the GTI?

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Originally Posted by mindonmatter View Post
Just double checked my 2019 manual, but yes it shows 502 or 504 for the Golf R. No 508.00.
(Maybe 502 is shown in the manual but I am thinking that only 504 is shown on the small metal plate found under the hood)
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:50 PM   #39
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Is a 504 rated oil not 'permitted' for the GTI?
Well, of course it is. I guess your point is, why am I going to use 502 instead of 504?

I will be tuned, I'm a very spirited driver, my daily driving is mostly stop-and-go driving, and I live in god awfully hot climate that is tough on engines and oil. I have no interest in testing my oil to 10k. I plan on 5k - 7.5k oil changes. 502 is cheaper and I thought maybe 504 was overkill?

Maybe I should use 504, I don't know. Should I? I'm no expert. I just know I'm not running 0w20
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:13 PM   #40
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Well, of course it is. I guess your point is, why am I going to use 502 instead of 504?
Yup. 504 rated oils are superb oils. That would be my choice if you were not going to use a 508.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:22 PM   #41
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Good to know. Thanks. I may go that route.
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Old 05-03-2019, 01:00 AM   #42
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They are starting to switch to 5W-30 and lower generally to hit fuel (edit->) mileage targets. A high quality 5W-40 is going to lubricate at high temperatures better than an equivalent 5W-30.

The 30 indicates lower viscosity at 100C (212F) then 40. Lower viscosity means less protection, all other things being equal.

Back in my BMW days guys ran 50 or 60 weight in the M track cars for extra protection at the limit.

I'm sure modern 5W-30 is much improved since then, but I wouldn't touch it on a high performance car.

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Old 05-03-2019, 01:07 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by copperbeech View Post
Are you sure? I thought I recall that later in the year production of even the 2018 Rs listed only the 504(/507) certification under the hood.









I am not sure why you think VW considers a 502 oil the "better oil" given that the 504/507 rating is the more demanding one. (And so I use the 504/507 rated oils in our 2018 R and UOAs have confirmed that these 0W30/5W30 oils protect very well.)
It has to be more demanding because the oil is thinner at operating temps and this makes it inherently harder to lubricate.

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Old 05-04-2019, 10:48 AM   #44
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It has to be more demanding because the oil is thinner at operating temps and this makes it inherently harder to lubricate.

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https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...-r#Post5051158
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by copperbeech View Post
A single anecdotal example on a <40,000 car isn't going to change physics. Also those tests are limited in what they can predict.

I said "all things being equal" and what I mean is that a high quality 5W-40 will beat a high quality 5W-30 in protection, this is just based on the characteristics of the oil. It's literally in the rating.

However, a good 5W-30 will beat a mediocre 5W-40 in daily driving.

Run 5W-30 on your tuned & tracked car, you're going to have a bad time.



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Old 05-05-2019, 03:36 PM   #46
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A single anecdotal example on a <40,000 car isn't going to change physics. Also those tests are limited in what they can predict.

I said "all things being equal" and what I mean is that a high quality 5W-40 will beat a high quality 5W-30 in protection, this is just based on the characteristics of the oil. It's literally in the rating.

However, a good 5W-30 will beat a mediocre 5W-40 in daily driving.

Run 5W-30 on your tuned & tracked car, you're going to have a bad time.



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Originally Posted by copperbeech View Post
Are you sure? I thought I recall that later in the year production of even the 2018 Rs listed only the 504(/507) certification under the hood.




I am not sure why you think VW considers a 502 oil the "better oil" given that the 504/507 rating is the more demanding one. (And so I use the 504/507 rated oils in our 2018 R and UOAs have confirmed that these 0W30/5W30 oils protect very well.)
Ok. I missed this earlier.

504/507 oils are not more demanding, they are completely different specifications. 504 replaced 503 for euro emissions standards which is both for lower viscosity and additives that won't cause emissions when they become piston blow-by.

507 is a low SAPS formula for extended service intervals. It resists breakdown more.

508 is a low friction standard for economy cars aiming for gas mileage. It calls for 0W-20 which is crazy.

EA888 Gen 3 engines call for 502, some others will work, but best to stick with 502 as a baseline.


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Old 09-20-2019, 06:48 AM   #47
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504 is a different, low-additive formula than 502 but exceedes the performance specs BY A MILE, so it supersedes 502.

502 is an old weak spec, only used in USA due to the high sulphur gas. Low additive (low saps) 504 oils do not work well when exposed to fuel dilution in our rich-tuned engines, done so for low NOx emissions, but since 2017 we now have ultra low-sulphur gas like Europe, so these oils can be used to full-length OCIs.

502 does poorly in a diluted environment.

MB 229.5 is the best full-saps spec. Any oil formulated "specific" to 502 is a downgrade.

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

I looked at some oils today at WalMart. Generally, Euro 5w-40 / 502 is a step down compared to 0w-40s. The Castrol labels seem to indicate this. 0w-40 is MB 229.5 and 5w-40 is only the older/weaker MB 229.3 that corresponds to VW 502 in time.





Edge 0w-40 is currently top dog. MB 229.5 with low calcium to avert LSPI, and titanium that quenches LSPI.

VW 504 is the best low-saps spec, but is expensive. If you want low saps top avert valve deposits and low calcium, there is another....Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w-30 is MB 229.51 the low-saps spec, just a hair behind VW 504.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-...5-qt/495194903

Also, tuned engines should look at HD diesel truck oils, which are far ahead of lame Euro 5w-40s. Chevron Delo 5w-40 for instance, has a high-temp / high-sheer rating of 4.1cP. way higher than the standard HT/HS Euro specs of 3.5cP.




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Old 09-20-2019, 02:52 PM   #48
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https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-...5-qt/163165881


For a couple bucks more you can exceed Castrol 0w-40 and pick up the Fiat Z2 spec that's used by Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa Romeo.


The BMW-01 spec is missing, but I'm about 99.9% sure that it's due to contract issues than not meeting it.
Shell/Penz is the supplier to BMW, and would probably prefer you go buy the exact same oil for $11.99/litre at your authorized BMW dealership.


The 5w-40 formulation is the exact same oil composition wise, but a very very very slightly thicker visco.
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