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Old 06-02-2018, 12:33 PM   #35
Armchair Racer
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Did you see the last photo he posted? That's not a melted piston! That's a fatigued/failed piston. Here's what a melted piston looks like:

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...ps166c6f9a.jpg

There are no signs of hot spots or a meltdown condition in any of the piston photos that have been posted of the failed 1.8T thus far. The photos are consistent with George Smooth's post that it failed from too much stress over time.

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Originally Posted by crxgator View Post
The piston melted. Wasnít cracked or anything.


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Old 06-02-2018, 12:52 PM   #36
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Okay so it appears you may be the king of BS here lol. I just did a little research into RJ's GTI. Here are a few details which you conveniently left out:

1) In the video you're referencing he's running much taller drag radials so his speedo is off by a whopping 5%. That's huge. So when the video shows him at 100, he's actually only doing 95.

2) He didn't go 11.1@127 like you said. He went 11.1@125.9. However if you check his Instagram post from the day he ran the 11.1, you'll see there was a problem with the right lane at the strip... it was off by 3-4 MPH compared to the left lane. In the left lane all his traps were 122-123.

3) The speedo video of his car was taken BEFORE the meth and 11.1 pass. He was only trapping 118-120 at the time the video was taken.

These are all reasons why bench racing and comparing videos online just doesn't work. Run your car at the strip. I bet you'll trap mid to high teens. Again, that's still fast for a 1.8T wagon.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:59 PM   #37
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You're not getting that the 1.8 is proving itself to be able to make more power than the 2.0. The 2.0 uses a 4mm larger crank journal, has larger counterweights on the crank, and has a longer stroke. That with the vvti, which is not better for performance, makes it produce more low end power, but fall off fast. Most of that power is not seen once out of first. At the shift points the 1.8 is making more power and will make more power after that and higher in the band. The APR tunes are not maximized for all out power like on the 2.0. That's why Chuck and Ironshade have had great results with a stack. If you don't believe it, my JB4 is20 car beat my friends JB4 gti by a couple of car lengths. He is peaking at 26psi and tapering to 18. In only 22-18. And I'm a sportwagen. Full weight with pano sunroof
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:02 PM   #38
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On also laughing about how a 5spd is all of a sudden horrible for racing when it was a game changer in the world of 3spd and 4sp guys. I guess my 400 Firebird than ran a 12.1 with a 3spd was a fluke 30 years ago. I guess no one told it about the future and the dsg.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:13 PM   #39
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Are you joking with that first sentence? How do figure that the 1.8T is "proving" to make more power than the 2.0T? You're correct that Chuck had great results but his car is also completely gutted running an open downpipe with no catback, front slicks etc. Even still, he's nowhere near the 125+ traps that both 2.0T Golf Rs and GTIs have ran with OEM IS38 turbos. With all else equal the 2.0T will always make more power than the 1.8T due to the better cam profile, larger displacement among other reasons. That is just a fact.

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You're not getting that the 1.8 is proving itself to be able to make more power than the 2.0.The 2.0 uses a 4mm larger crank journal, has larger counterweights on the crank, and has a longer stroke. That with the vvti, which is not better for performance, makes it produce more low end power, but fall off fast. Most of that power is not seen once out of first. At the shift points the 1.8 is making more power and will make more power after that and higher in the band. The APR tunes are not maximized for all out power like on the 2.0. That's why Chuck and Ironshade have had great results with a stack. If you don't believe it, my JB4 is20 car beat my friends JB4 gti by a couple of car lengths. He is peaking at 26psi and tapering to 18. In only 22-18. And I'm a sportwagen. Full weight with pano sunroof
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:19 PM   #40
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You're making very general and vague arguments here which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Some of the quickest RWD muscle cars in the world run 2 and 3-speed automatic transmissions. What's your point? It has nothing to do with the number of gears but rather the gearing. The gearing of the 5-speed transaxle in the FWD 1.8Ts is absolutely horrible. It's a HUGE difference compared to the 6-speed DSG in the Sportwagen 4Motion. Here's an example of why it will hurt acceleration in a big way. When you shift from say 2nd to 3rd with the 5-speed, you'll be at a MUCH lower RPM at the start of third. Now look at an IS38 1.8T dyno sheet and you'll see at that lower RPM the engine is making significantly less power than it is at the MUCH higher RPM where the DSG trans will be at the start of 3rd after the 2-3 shift. This results in slower acceleration. There's no disputing that.

As others have noted, the 5-speed is not a close ratio box. It has long ass gears and as such, will hurt acceleration, especially with a decent sized turbo like the IS38 which shifts the powerband higher compared to the IS20 and factory IS12.

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On also laughing about how a 5spd is all of a sudden horrible for racing when it was a game changer in the world of 3spd and 4sp guys. I guess my 400 Firebird than ran a 12.1 with a 3spd was a fluke 30 years ago. I guess no one told it about the future and the dsg.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:32 PM   #41
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Take a look at 613B6's A3. He trapped 120 on PUMP gas, no meth, in a full interior and full exhaust A3 with OEM IS38. That's a much heavier setup than Chuck G's gutted SW with no catback and other weight reduction. PLUS there's an enormous difference between pump/no meth and race gas/meth yet he still went 120 compared to Chuck's 119.

I love the 1.8T and own one but it's getting pretty deep in here... You shouldn't make bogus posts like the one below because others will read it and think it's true. It's absolutely positively a false statement. The 2.0T with all else equal will always make more power than the 1.8T for several different reasons such as displacement and cam profile.

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You're not getting that the 1.8 is proving itself to be able to make more power than the 2.0.
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Old 06-02-2018, 02:25 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair Racer View Post
Did you see the last photo he posted? That's not a melted piston! That's a fatigued/failed piston. Here's what a melted piston looks like:

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...ps166c6f9a.jpg

There are no signs of hot spots or a meltdown condition in any of the piston photos that have been posted of the failed 1.8T thus far. The photos are consistent with George Smooth's post that it failed from too much stress over time.

again, it's a melted piston. The picture of the piston removed shows that it melted. The picture has not been posted. Cylinder 1 didn't get enough fuel. Go look in the jb4 thread for more details.
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Old 06-02-2018, 02:42 PM   #43
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Here's a 50-125ish pull takes about 15 seconds. (I tired to embed below, but I'm not sure what the forums code is for a YouTube video)
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:03 PM   #44
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The quickest awd 2.0 cars are right in the 1/4 mile thread. Race gas, weight reduction, meth etc. They are running 11.4-11.5@114-115. So tell me again how Chuck isn't as fast as they are on a make do tune. Get some facts straight first.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:08 PM   #45
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And the 1.8 uses an identical intake cam. Only the exhaust cam is different because of vvti. That vvti and exhaust cam is why the gti can't hold as much boost or power up top like the 1.8. Combine that with shorter stroke and less reciprocating mass, the 1.8 has the ability to make more power. This isn't just a VAG thing, it applied to all engines. Once we figure out the hpfp issue and maybe get some custom tunes, you will truly see. The weak point on the 1.8 now becomes things like pistons and possibly the bottom end. Keep talking from your armchair until you go out and actually try
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:09 PM   #46
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Again, yet another flawed argument. While those may be the fastest AWD 2.0T cars which are posted on this website they aren't representative of the 2.0T IS38 cars that are pushed hard. Like I said, there are Golf Rs and GTIs that have trapped mid 120's with full exhausts (Chuck was running an open exhaust). I also gave you the A3 example, a pump gas, no meth, full exhaust and much heavier car that still trapped higher than Chuck.

Again, it was a ridiculously false statement to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinDad View Post
The quickest awd 2.0 cars are right in the 1/4 mile thread. Race gas, weight reduction, meth etc. They are running 11.4-11.5@114-115. So tell me again how Chuck isn't as fast as they are on a make do tune. Get some facts straight first.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:21 PM   #47
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And I just checked the spreadsheet and the cars you're referring to are trapping 118-120 not 114-115 like you stated:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...rjv9U/htmlview
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:29 PM   #48
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So now you're saying it has the _ability_ to make more power once certain things are changed. Just before you said it already has proven to make more power than the 2.0T. So which is it?

The reason why the GTI can't hold more boost up top is because it has greater displacement. The fact is due to the better head, cam profile and greater displacement, it will always make more power than the 1.8 with all else equal. It's a silly argument anyway since the 1.8T is weaker and shouldn't be pushed to these limits anyway due to the weaker pistons and cast crank.

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And the 1.8 uses an identical intake cam. Only the exhaust cam is different because of vvti. That vvti and exhaust cam is why the gti can't hold as much boost or power up top like the 1.8. Combine that with shorter stroke and less reciprocating mass, the 1.8 has the ability to make more power. This isn't just a VAG thing, it applied to all engines. Once we figure out the hpfp issue and maybe get some custom tunes, you will truly see. The weak point on the 1.8 now becomes things like pistons and possibly the bottom end. Keep talking from your armchair until you go out and actually try
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair Racer View Post
And I just checked the spreadsheet and the cars you're referring to are trapping 118-120 not 114-115 like you stated:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...rjv9U/htmlview
Sorry, I meant 118-119. The same trap and et that Chuck is running. So even with my error, he is just a short fast as the very fastest awd 2.0 in North America. All on a tune that's not supported to be that fast. So keep telling me how the 1.8 is not making just as much power or more.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:54 PM   #50
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You totally ignored the posts where I already proved it to you lol. The A3, for example which went faster despite pump/no meth/full exhaust/more weight vs Chuck's race fuel/meth/open exhaust/gutted 1.8T. Those are HUGE differences yet he still trapped higher than Chuck's car.

Then there are 2.0T cars like RJ's (go back to page 1 of this thread for more info) which went 11.1 and trapped mid 120's.

I'm not saying the difference between the 1.8T and 2.0T is huge. It isn't. But the 2.0T will always make that 10-15% or so more power with all else equal. But what you said about the 1.8T "proving to make more power than the 2.0T is just blatantly false. And what prompted you to make such a ridiculous assertion? Because one guy with a 1.8T ran 11.4@119 with his car completely gutted, no exhaust, slicks, race fuel and meth? Lol.

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Sorry, I meant 118-119. The same trap and et that Chuck is running. So even with my error, he is just a short fast as the very fastest awd 2.0 in North America. All on a tune that's not supported to be that fast. So keep telling me how the 1.8 is not making just as much power or more.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:55 PM   #51
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Iíll share my 2 cents...

First, Chucks car is amazing, and what he has accomplished and brought to the 1.8 community through how heís pushed his car is amazing.

Some of us that are more personally connected with him off of the forums, know a bit more about the specifics of what happened, and can absolutely confirm that this engine could be pushed further with better fueling.

One thing that bugs me now though that Iíve seen happen multiple times, since he has gone deep into the 11ís, is people strapping on an is38 and claiming they have a mid 11 second car and how it traps 119 just because he did it. The reason Chuck helped push the platform so far, is due to the countless weekends he has spent at the track, and the hundreds of passes heís made and documented.

We need to have more people get to the track and report back actual data and time slips. Or everyone just go get a draggy and we can compare a little better. What Iíve learned from chuck, and my days at the track is that there are so many factors that play into your et and trap. You can go to the track and with some minor tweaks, gain or lose 3-5 mph and 1/2 second.

Iím interested in still seeing how far we can get on the is20 as with only a couple weekends at the track I was able to get it to a 12.1, and Iíve trapped as high as 110.9.

TLDR:
Everyone go to the track and come back with slips before posting again lol
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