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Old 06-02-2018, 05:00 AM   #18
MonkeyMD
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Originally Posted by 4MotionWagen View Post
Blade, you say you have a beta tune, what tune do you have?

Ironshade, when did you upgrade to IS38? What tune are you running with that?
I'm curious about this as well. Who's doing the tuning and how? We don't have Cobb or Maestro AFAIK.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:05 AM   #19
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I never said "we are seeing engine failures." Read it again. You missed the "already starting to see" part. It's perfectly good English and does not suggest there was more than one failure. "My wife and I have already started having kids." That doesn't mean you have more than one child currently.

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“We already saw one engine failure”

Vs

“We are seeing engine failures.


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Old 06-02-2018, 05:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by 4MotionWagen View Post
Blade, you say you have a beta tune, what tune do you have?

Ironshade, when did you upgrade to IS38? What tune are you running with that?
APR IS38 beta revision. I have an 8/14 build date, one of the early early 1.8s. I forget my box code, but they hadn't developed anything above a IS20 for it until I scheduled the tune/turbo. They said they were only aware of auto IS38s to that point, and possibly a manual alltrack. But if ironshade has an IS38 tune who knows what is actually out there lol. Based on the boost gauge it doesn't spike at all, it climbs to 25 or 26 and holds til redline. I'll run a couple logs with VCDS to confirm. It definitely has a smoother power band than my old IS12 tune. On the flip side there are a few oddities. When pulling from a dig the car feels much more powerful and accelerates much more violently then from a roll. A couple friends drove/rode and agreed. Then there is the esc(p?) light when in 5th gear in low boost high load. At first I assumed it was the stock intercooler, but I'm wondering if it's something tune related as it occurred again at 60F with 15% humidity on flat ground when trying to overtake a car. It's almost like a safety threshold is hit so the ecu says no boost for you.


I'm definitely not sticking with the 5 speed when this trans goes. KAPS finally got back to me about the dogbox sequential so I will probably go that route with some custom ratios. Likely a shorter 1-4 for the track with the existing 4-5 as 5-6 for the street.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Blade3562 View Post
APR IS38 beta revision. I have an 8/14 build date, one of the early early 1.8s. I forget my box code, but they hadn't developed anything above a IS20 for it until I scheduled the tune/turbo. They said they were only aware of auto IS38s to that point, and possibly a manual alltrack. But if ironshade has an IS38 tune who knows what is actually out there lol. Based on the boost gauge it doesn't spike at all, it climbs to 25 or 26 and holds til redline. I'll run a couple logs with VCDS to confirm. It definitely has a smoother power band than my old IS12 tune. On the flip side there are a few oddities. When pulling from a dig the car feels much more powerful and accelerates much more violently then from a roll. A couple friends drove/rode and agreed. Then there is the esc(p?) light when in 5th gear in low boost high load. At first I assumed it was the stock intercooler, but I'm wondering if it's something tune related as it occurred again at 60F with 15% humidity on flat ground when trying to overtake a car. It's almost like a safety threshold is hit so the ecu says no boost for you.


I'm definitely not sticking with the 5 speed when this trans goes. KAPS finally got back to me about the dogbox sequential so I will probably go that route with some custom ratios. Likely a shorter 1-4 for the track with the existing 4-5 as 5-6 for the street.
You make it sound like they were waiting for you to finally release a tune. Lol. Beta doesn't mean it's the only one out there. The manual Alltrack is in here as well as a few dsg. The awd tunes have been out for a while. Irons hade has the first fwd tune from them and has had it for months
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:42 AM   #22
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Low to mid 120's with an IS38 on an 1.8T with a 5-speed? I'll believe that when I see it. Chuck G trapped 119 recently but his wagon was completely gutted, running an open downpipe with no catback etc. The difference is his car is DSG with lightning quick shifts and much much better gearing than the 5-speed manual. I don't see anything that would make the 5-speed trans a "monster" as you call it. As others have stated, the gearing is super long and not close ratio like the other boxes. Even if you're shifting at 7K+ RPMs, you're still going to be at a much lower RPM after each shift compared to the DSG. This results in you having to crawl back into the powerband. Compare on a dyno sheet the RPMs you're at after each shift vs the DSG. There will be a huge difference. With the 5-speed I think you'll be in the 115-117 range at the strip.

The way the ring land failure was described, it didn't sound like it was from detonation or a lean condition. It just sounded like it was too much prolonged stress over time. Which could suck for a lot of IS38 owners since the mod is relatively new for the 1.8T and not too many people have racked up a lot of miles on their setups yet.
So rhe guy has beaten two cars that trap mid 120's at the track and that's not a monster? OK then. We've seen the piston and the engine break down. Piston melted and it's suspected that the cylinder ran lean. Do they worry, once we take that next step and find the fueling solution, we will share it. Good thing there are a few of us actually pushing this platform so the pheasants will know what to do next. Threw that last one else in the for you K. Lol
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:46 AM   #23
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It's not a beta tune per se. APR just didn't have the tune ported over to your box code yet. It takes a few minutes for them to do that.

Just a FYI, flooring it in 5th gear at low RPM/high load is about the worst thing you can do. It puts enormous stress on the engine and can lead to catastrophic engine damage. Just some friendly advice.

I'd also be careful running a stock intercooler with an IS38, especially when that APR calibration was tuned for the APR intercooler. You can absolutely detonate by doing that.

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Originally Posted by Blade3562 View Post
APR IS38 beta revision. I have an 8/14 build date, one of the early early 1.8s. I forget my box code, but they hadn't developed anything above a IS20 for it until I scheduled the tune/turbo. They said they were only aware of auto IS38s to that point, and possibly a manual alltrack. But if ironshade has an IS38 tune who knows what is actually out there lol. Based on the boost gauge it doesn't spike at all, it climbs to 25 or 26 and holds til redline. I'll run a couple logs with VCDS to confirm. It definitely has a smoother power band than my old IS12 tune. On the flip side there are a few oddities. When pulling from a dig the car feels much more powerful and accelerates much more violently then from a roll. A couple friends drove/rode and agreed. Then there is the esc(p?) light when in 5th gear in low boost high load. At first I assumed it was the stock intercooler, but I'm wondering if it's something tune related as it occurred again at 60F with 15% humidity on flat ground when trying to overtake a car. It's almost like a safety threshold is hit so the ecu says no boost for you.


I'm definitely not sticking with the 5 speed when this trans goes. KAPS finally got back to me about the dogbox sequential so I will probably go that route with some custom ratios. Likely a shorter 1-4 for the track with the existing 4-5 as 5-6 for the street.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:00 AM   #24
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Uh, you're taking his comment out of context. His monster comment was in reference to his 5-speed trans. Others were talking about how the gearing sucks for acceleration and he replied that it's a monster because it eliminates wheel spin lol.

Just trust me, he's not trapping mid to 120's with his current setup. Saying he beat other cars who trapped mid 120's would suggest his car is even faster than mid 120's. Unfortunately it never works out this way. Either the other guys are lying about what they ran or he didn't beat them or they spun or he jumped them bigtime or their cars were having issues or they were on pump fuel with the boost turned down versus having the boost up on race gas at the strip. The possibilities are endless. That's why this kind of bench racing rarely works. He just has to run his car at the strip. I bet it goes mid teens.

Pheasants? Lol. Trust me, I'm the least cookie cutter of them all. This car just so happens to be my daily beater which I also use to rescue dogs. So I'm happy with the IS20 and tune with everything else stock.

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So rhe guy has beaten two cars that trap mid 120's at the track and that's not a monster? OK then. We've seen the piston and the engine break down. Piston melted and it's suspected that the cylinder ran lean. Do they worry, once we take that next step and find the fueling solution, we will share it. Good thing there are a few of us actually pushing this platform so the pheasants will know what to do next. Threw that last one else in the for you K. Lol
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:08 AM   #25
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The guy who posted about the failure indicated it was not tune or fuel related. He specifically stated that we may have found the limits of the 1.8T as the car in question had been hammered hard over the past 6-7 months. This makes sense to me. If it were a tuning/fueling/lean condition/etc issue it would have blown up months ago. An engine doesn't run with a particular setup for months like that and then go lean out of nowhere. If that were the case it would have happened on one of the first pulls, not months later down the road.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:16 AM   #26
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Here's what he said. No hot spots on the piston (something you'd absolutely see from a lean/meltdown condition). Also, check out the log. Very clean. Certainly doesn't seem like it was lean. The 1.8T pistons just aren't as strong as the 2.0T's as that's one of the parts they reinforced for the 2.0T. Another is the crank. Our cars have cast cranks with 48mm bearings vs forged steel cranks with 52mm bearings in the 2.0T.

Running an IS38 with the 1.8T bottom end is asking for trouble. We may very well see more failures as miles start to rack up on these setups as they're still in their infancy.

The right way to do it is to go with the 2.0 bottom end. But then you're starting to turn the car into a money pit. With A3 2.0Ts as cheap as $12K these days, it probably makes more sense to sell the VW and pick up one of those. It has the good 2.0T bottom end, better head/variable timing plus it's all wheel drive and has the good 6-speed DSG trans.

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I think we have managed to find the weakness of the 1.8T. With IS38 APR stack and very good logging the car has been getting the beat down for the past 6 months. Eventually on a clean pull it seems the ring land on the one cylinder has broken. I reckon the breakage is due to sustained power and provisionally the piston doesn't look like it has any hot spots or anything. What is also interesting to note is the tuning on it was wrapped up pretty quickly with good fuels so we never really ran into timing adaption issues or knock that could have weakened the system. I reckon output based on performance was in the 370-380whp region.


Engine is going to get built so if anyone has found stronger internals for them post away.

Log attached of when it let go.

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Old 06-02-2018, 07:39 AM   #27
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When pulling from a dig the car feels much more powerful and accelerates much more violently then from a roll. A couple friends drove/rode and agreed.
I have the IS20 stock Downpipe tune from APR and feel the same way. It feels like it is a completely different car from a launch then from a roll. Sometimes if I catch it just right from a roll it feels insane but it isn't like that most of the time. I was JB4 + IS20 stock Downpipe and at times I feel like it was faster from a roll with that set up. Hard to tell but nephew seems to agree with me. Definitely much faster from a launch than the JB4 set up was.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 4MotionWagen View Post
I have the IS20 stock Downpipe tune from APR and feel the same way. It feels like it is a completely different car from a launch then from a roll. Sometimes if I catch it just right from a roll it feels insane but it isn't like that most of the time. I was JB4 + IS20 stock Downpipe and at times I feel like it was faster from a roll with that set up. Hard to tell but nephew seems to agree with me. Definitely much faster from a launch than the JB4 set up was.
Interesting, I wonder what the reasoning behind this is. I believe stock DSG cars retard timing and can hold boost through a gear shift. I wonder if something similiar is applied to the ecu when you go full throttle from a launch vs a roll.

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You make it sound like they were waiting for you to finally release a tune. Lol. Beta doesn't mean it's the only one out there. The manual Alltrack is in here as well as a few dsg. The awd tunes have been out for a while. Irons hade has the first fwd tune from them and has had it for months
I was told it was more than adjusting for the box code, maybe it's a revision? They told me they wanted feedback on various things and that I might have issues with the software/tune. The AWD and FWD tunes are completely different, so they are probably still honing it in for those of us that can't power the rear wheels. I guess all the FWD IS38s are beta tunes right now. Who would have thought a pc style release system would come to the automotive industry. Sorry if the phraseology was misleading/confusing just going off what I'm told lol.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:39 AM   #29
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Chucks car gutted still weighs more than mine full weight. Mines weights 3060lbs at silver dollar raceway scales also he’s got awd drivetrain loss and dsg drive train loss to the wheels thats ~15% more power. No reason to lie here. I call if like i see it. Never said it waa better than a dsg. But for highway rolls you sleepin on it. And for someone that wanna talk about my bullshiting. Compare my 60-100mph clip to ryan Johnsons car. That ran 11.1@127.

Fyi the n54 bmw i ran walked my stage 3 b5s4 on srm hybrid k04s making 444whp/463wtq (28spike 26taper) 3.0-3.2 fats and that i can definitely prove all day.

Think of it this way. Muscle cars run 2 and 3 speed autos. Lol. But hey i’ll do you a solid. My friend has a 16 auto hellcat i’ll run him from 70mph rolls to eliminate any questions and video It for you. I already pulled his FBO 2jz supra with cams and upgraded cold side (stock turbo) and i walked 6bolt awd dsm HtA68 car that ran 11.8@119mph raced them both on is38.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZX...3SnlIIyno-CSI_
Heres an old video car made 288whp 357wtq on jb4/downpipe and is20 only. Ran 6 seconds 60-100. For record. When i went fbo apr is20 on jb4 stack and water meth i was running low 5s 60-100. Read about it on this post. https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39376

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Old 06-02-2018, 11:32 AM   #30
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1.8tsi vs 2.0tsi pictures

When George said that post about it breaking it was view through spark plugs. Once engine was removed and tests were done it was discovered to be a fueling issue. Rail pressure to low and cylinder 1 is farthest on the rail. Just because afr looks ok. (12.5 is high for long pulls especially at top of 4th where egts are skyrocketing) dosent mean all cylinders are preforming equal

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18c...Kc3oYQk-V_MYff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Za...U2iV_14uvwFLJC

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zg...XMcYFHtrOVNP0H
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:37 AM   #31
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Pictures of the piston that took a shit

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Hh...iRQrH3SAwBu7FG

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Yb...0O0rH_y_Wz8ZVl
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:15 PM   #32
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Look at that last picture you posted. That's a CLASSIC piston ring land failure from fatigue and stress over time. It just couldn't hold the torque and cylinder pressure. That is NOT a melted piston which is what you'd see from running lean.

You're living in a total fantasy world if you think a modern high tech DSG trans and Haldex AWD setup consumes an additional 15% power compared to a 5-speed manual lol. It's not even close to that. It's probably closer to a 1-2% difference compared to your car.

Chuck's wagon is close to 3056 with all the weight reduction he did (all seats except driver seat out, no catback, lightweight wheels etc).

I don't know who Ryan Johnson is but my S6's absolutely best ET at the strip is a 10.6@127 and if you compare my speedo video to yours, it's much much faster from a 60 roll. Like not even close. I actually only trapped 125-126 on the same night this video was taken. Just trust me, you're trapping nowhere close to 127 lol. You're probably off by 10 MPH but 117 is still fast for a family wagon with a stock motor. I just wonder how long it'll stay together...

https://youtu.be/rYZj9E4UfLw

Instead of bench racing, you should just take your car to the strip. The timeslip won't lie! Unless you ever get down to FL and want to race a _real_ mid 120 car like my S6.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:19 PM   #33
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The piston melted. Wasn’t cracked or anything.


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Old 06-02-2018, 12:28 PM   #34
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This is pretty much normal of any car that gets traction from a standstill. The rate of acceleration and longitudinal G-forces are almost always higher from a launch than from a roll.

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I have the IS20 stock Downpipe tune from APR and feel the same way. It feels like it is a completely different car from a launch then from a roll. Sometimes if I catch it just right from a roll it feels insane but it isn't like that most of the time. I was JB4 + IS20 stock Downpipe and at times I feel like it was faster from a roll with that set up. Hard to tell but nephew seems to agree with me. Definitely much faster from a launch than the JB4 set up was.
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