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Old 01-23-2017, 09:55 PM   #1
Ian@MAPerformance
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MAPerformance GTI Stage 1 Tune Cobb OTS vs. ProTune

Hey everyone. Thought I would share this on here. Obviously with the release of the Accessport for the MK7 GTI's, we wanted to get our hands on one for testing. We just picked up a 2016 GTI with a DSG for a shop car. We did a few base line runs stock, then loaded up the Cobb OTS Stage 1 tune. I was honestly surprised at the power the car picked up with the Cobb tune. However, there were obviously some room for improvement, especially at the higher RPM range. We then did a pro tune on the car, and picked up quite a bit more power, and 60whp over Cobb at 6k RPM's. Overall, super impressed with this platform!

Purple line- Baseline numbers on 93
Red line- Cobb OTS Stage 1 93 oct tune
Red line- MAPerformance pro tune on 93 octane

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Old 01-23-2017, 10:17 PM   #2
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Wish you guys could compare APR stage 1 with your pro tune. I have no doubt cobb would probably come out on top but i would imagine it would be awfully close


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Old 01-23-2017, 10:18 PM   #3
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A little over 303 WHP and 370 TQ with no supporting mod's? No intake, no exhaust, no nothing? This is the first dyno'd/tuned Cobb GTI I have seen posted.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Worldpacgti View Post
Wish you guys could compare APR stage 1 with your pro tune. I have no doubt cobb would probably come out on top but i would imagine it would be awfully close


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See I think that APR would come out on top. APR is specifically VW/Audi. All of there time is dedicated to those platforms with hours and days and weeks of research into there tunes. Cobb's OTS tunes are exactly the same for every platform.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:24 PM   #5
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We actually did sir. Our tuner also works for an APR dealer here in MN, and flashed the car with that as well for testing. I will have him provide the numbers from that when I see him.

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Originally Posted by Worldpacgti View Post
Wish you guys could compare APR stage 1 with your pro tune. I have no doubt cobb would probably come out on top but i would imagine it would be awfully close


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Old 01-23-2017, 10:24 PM   #6
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Correct. This car is completely stock at this time.

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Originally Posted by njkymk7GTI View Post
A little over 303 WHP and 370 TQ with no supporting mod's? No intake, no exhaust, no nothing? This is the first dyno'd/tuned Cobb GTI I have seen posted.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ian@MAPerformance View Post
Correct. This car is completely stock at this time.
Can't wait to see those stage 2 numbers. Are you guys going to offer custom etunes? Yall find a replacement for Adam yet hahaha.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkymk7GTI View Post
A little over 303 WHP and 370 TQ with no supporting mod's? No intake, no exhaust, no nothing? This is the first dyno'd/tuned Cobb GTI I have seen posted.
There are 2 others other there mine included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkymk7GTI View Post
See I think that APR would come out on top. APR is specifically VW/Audi. All of there time is dedicated to those platforms with hours and days and weeks of research into there tunes. Cobb's OTS tunes are exactly the same for every platform.
I think you would be surprised by how much closer the 2 actually are. Development time can be argued (no idea how long Cobb / Apr has worked on theirs ) , but the Apr map is essentially a ots map that is meant to fit most cars like Cobb. Protuning (or user tuning) is where you can really go down the rabbit hole of customization

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Old 01-23-2017, 10:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian@MAPerformance View Post
Hey everyone. Thought I would share this on here. Obviously with the release of the Accessport for the MK7 GTI's, we wanted to get our hands on one for testing. We just picked up a 2016 GTI with a DSG for a shop car. We did a few base line runs stock, then loaded up the Cobb OTS Stage 1 tune. I was honestly surprised at the power the car picked up with the Cobb tune. However, there were obviously some room for improvement, especially at the higher RPM range. We then did a pro tune on the car, and picked up quite a bit more power, and 60whp over Cobb at 6k RPM's. Overall, super impressed with this platform!

Purple line- Baseline numbers on 93
Red line- Cobb OTS Stage 1 93 oct tune
Red line- MAPerformance pro tune on 93 octane

Thanks for doing this! These guys are awesome and I highly recommend them. Wouldn't go anywhere else for my AP.

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Old 01-23-2017, 10:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcruz View Post
There are 2 others other there mine included.

I think you would be surprised by how much closer the 2 actually are. Development time can be argued (no idea how long Cobb / Apr has worked on theirs ) , but the Apr map is essentially a ots map that is meant to fit most cars like Cobb. Protuning (or user tuning) is where you can really go down the rabbit hole of customization

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I get that, but on each respected website, which numbers are a bit inflated to sell the product, APR has 291 WHP Stage 1 no supporting mods on 93. They dyno'd Cobb OTS Stage 1 map at 271. After the tweaking and protuning it was at 303. So 20 more HP to the wheels over Cobb, but then 12 less after being protuned. You are essentially paying 50 more dollars (Cobb $650 APR $700) for 20 more HP. I would take that all day. HOWEVER, as you mentioned you can then get into the weeds with the accessport. Unfortunately, not everyone can do this. Tuners charge so then you are going to pay more. Any route we take is simply preference, but it is EXTREMELY beneficial to me to see the comparisons, even though I am way passed stage 1 or 2 haha.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkymk7GTI View Post
I get that, but on each respected website, which numbers are a bit inflated to sell the product, APR has 291 WHP Stage 1 no supporting mods on 93. They dyno'd Cobb OTS Stage 1 map at 271. After the tweaking and protuning it was at 303. So 20 more HP to the wheels over Cobb, but then 12 less after being protuned. You are essentially paying 50 more dollars (Cobb $650 APR $700) for 20 more HP. I would take that all day. HOWEVER, as you mentioned you can then get into the weeds with the accessport. Unfortunately, not everyone can do this. Tuners charge so then you are going to pay more. Any route we take is simply preference, but it is EXTREMELY beneficial to me to see the comparisons, even though I am way passed stage 1 or 2 haha.
APR is $700 + tax + labor + extra for map upgrades + more labor - cannot be resold.
Cobb is $650 shipped + say $300 for a dyno tune + can be resold.

No contest. I have a strong dislike for Cobb's new policy on ATR though, which i think is absolutely stupid.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:50 PM   #12
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JMO, but the ability to do custom/protuning, flash your own vehicle, datalog, and sell device if needed to recoup expense puts Cobb on another level compared to APR bench flashes.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldpacgti View Post
Wish you guys could compare APR stage 1 with your pro tune. I have no doubt cobb would probably come out on top but i would imagine it would be awfully close
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkymk7GTI View Post
See I think that APR would come out on top. APR is specifically VW/Audi. All of there time is dedicated to those platforms with hours and days and weeks of research into there tunes. Cobb's OTS tunes are exactly the same for every platform.
A good custom tune should actually make more power than any off the shelf tune because it is mapped specifically for that car, its specific setup and in that environment. OTS tunes need to have some wiggle room to keep things safe because that tune will work on cars that are in the desert, at 6000' elevation or in Alaska. Plus the big brand tuners that sell the universal tunes would get a bad reputation if they were blowing engines due to a tune that is too aggressive, so that cushion is there for safety. This is why you can stack a JB4 onto any box tune and extract more power out of them. There are hundred or thousands of hours that are put into many box tunes that allow for all of these adjustments, refinement and torque limiters that I think COBB may take a little longer in figuring out as they are still newer to the market... but I think its probably a great option for most. The most appealing part of COBBs unit to me is that it can be resold for near full value and also used for live data, no other VW product has that in a hand-held device
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:51 PM   #14
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Great numbers! Can you tell me how much boost you're running and the ambient conditions at the time?

Above 5750rpm the OTS tune falls flat on its face, any idea why? I didn't see this on the other OTS dynos from what I remember, just curious if you noticed anything weird when you were improving it.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:13 PM   #15
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Great numbers! Can you tell me how much boost you're running and the ambient conditions at the time?

Above 5750rpm the OTS tune falls flat on its face, any idea why? I didn't see this on the other OTS dynos from what I remember, just curious if you noticed anything weird when you were improving it.
Have you seen the Cobb flyer dyno sheet outlining the differences between the stages? It cuts off at 5500 RPM IIRC. I assumed ATR would be free like it was in the past, but removing that ability and forcing people to take a tuning class (that they likely get a kickback from) soured me on them a bit.

I almost want the openflashtablet to come out for the GTI so I can buy it!
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:23 PM   #16
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I noticed that the baseline is dynoing 230 whp but it is also stretched out to 6500+ RPM, is this stage 0 "stock-like" map with the AP married or is this third gear?

Also PP or non-PP?
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:32 PM   #17
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Yes sir! We plan to include our custom OTS tunes free with the purchase of an Accessport from us. We hired Brian May to help us with this platform. He also did our tunes for the 15+ WRX, STI, and has an extensive background in DIT tuning.

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Can't wait to see those stage 2 numbers. Are you guys going to offer custom etunes? Yall find a replacement for Adam yet hahaha.
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