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Old 08-18-2019, 01:08 PM   #103
Mk_GTI
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Originally Posted by jimlloyd40 View Post
It would take more than a tune to get a GTI up to the CTR power numbers. That's also not the point. The thread is a comparison of the CTR to a Golf R because people cross shop those.
Get a stage 2 tune and you'll be replacing the OEM clutch very early.
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:07 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by zinfamous View Post
for the lulz?

300hp is fine for FWD, 400hp I consider the limit for a DD. Of course it's not every ones cup of tea. Which is why the R is such a better option than the CTR, it's just as fast and will put well over 400hp to the ground if you ever feel the need. Most people are not testing the limits of the car at the track either.



Also lets not forget the STI exists...they tend to hold value as well. Though, if you are choosing a car based on how it holds value, you should probably buy used. Or invest your money instead in actual assets
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:38 PM   #105
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Also lets not forget the STI exists...they tend to hold value as well.
Yes, got at 2016 in my garage next to my Golf-R. Fantastic cars to have for variety. I love my Golf-R and STI.
I'm not sure I can enjoy the Civic TypeR. I might still get one though since I have a spot open in my garage.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:20 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Mk_GTI View Post
Get a stage 2 tune and you'll be replacing the OEM clutch very early.
Have no idea why you said that in relation to what I said.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:14 AM   #107
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Also lets not forget the STI exists...they tend to hold value as well.
Immense understatement. I sold my 07 WRX with 177k for almost 15k
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:41 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by zinfamous View Post
disagree.

you compare parts for parts because it's the only proper way to do it. It may not sound "fair," but it really is. It's the same reason you don't try to compare modded vs stocked. It's ridiculous. All you do is jump into the rabbit hole of defining what is "the best version" before you eventually realize that you lost the game days ago. And in the end, all your data is shit and no one should trust it.

Yes, obviously the DSG will be way faster on a start and in a straight line, but I'm still not sure that matters in the end with a full track test. The CTR is a beast.
Sorry but that makes no sense. There is a big difference between testing two stock cars with the transmissions they come with from the factory than a stock vs modded car. Your "proper" way of doing it is running with a nerfed version of the Golf R which the manual essentially is if you want the best possible performance.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:48 PM   #109
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Literally any topic can be turned into Manual vs. DSG.



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Old 08-19-2019, 07:46 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by jimlloyd40 View Post
Have no idea why you said that in relation to what I said.
You can easily tune a GTI to CTR levels, but the clutch becomes a major weak point. Something to consider if comparing these two cars.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:07 PM   #111
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Sorry but that makes no sense. There is a big difference between testing two stock cars with the transmissions they come with from the factory than a stock vs modded car. Your "proper" way of doing it is running with a nerfed version of the Golf R which the manual essentially is if you want the best possible performance.
In a drag race, obviously it's more of an advantage (for the R) to test the DSG R against the only-available-as-manual CTR. But you're really just showing how much of an advantage the DSG is to every manual on any car today.

You're not really testing the cars at that point. Testing doesn't work that way. You either keep the same bottleneck on both platforms (manual transmission as bottleneck to acceleration), or give one test platform a major advantage by eliminating that one bottleneck, thus handicapping the other, and arbitrarily declaring it fair. It simply isn't a fair test.

Now, do I think it's more interesting to test the R DSG vs the CTR? sure....but you're further increasing the price gap between the two (if we just go by MSRP), which will probably only show the CTR to be an even better value, no?
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:20 PM   #112
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i think i may be one of the few here who will take a ctr over an golf r. Ive had 01 integra 5spd and 06 rsx type-s and loved the way honda fwd cars drive. It is addicting! Their gearboxes is unparalleled. The ctr builds builds on what makes the integra and rsx so fun, so i can imagine it being an amazing machine.

GTI is great and refined in its driving but lacks that thrill...
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:17 PM   #113
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i think i may be one of the few here who will take a ctr over an golf r. Ive had 01 integra 5spd and 06 rsx type-s and loved the way honda fwd cars drive. It is addicting! Their gearboxes is unparalleled. The ctr builds builds on what makes the integra and rsx so fun, so i can imagine it being an amazing machine.

GTI is great and refined in its driving but lacks that thrill...
I might take a CTR over a Golf R, but the GTI vs CTR is a weird comparo.

The real world prices are quite different.

My loaded SE, 6MT, PP, LP with DCC was $28,500 after discounts.
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:51 AM   #114
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You can easily tune a GTI to CTR levels, but the clutch becomes a major weak point. Something to consider if comparing these two cars.
Correct but that's not what the thread is about. It's about the CTR and Golf R. Yes you can tune a GTI to CTR power levels pretty easily but that's irrelevant to this thread. Plus you would then be comparing a tuned GTI with mods to a stock CTR. Tune the CTR and then the GTI has to spend more money to catch up. And so it goes on and on.
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:29 AM   #115
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My friend got one of these in championship white. For 45k, I'm not impressed. My JB4 e30 GTI has no problem keeping up when hooning around in the canyons. When we do pulls on the freeway, we're dead even until ~115 MPH, and then he'll start pulling away and really pulling away when I hit the speed limiter . For *almost* twice the amount of money as my car, I'd expect him to blow the doors off my GTI. Golf R for sure
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:20 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by zinfamous View Post
In a drag race, obviously it's more of an advantage (for the R) to test the DSG R against the only-available-as-manual CTR. But you're really just showing how much of an advantage the DSG is to every manual on any car today.

You're not really testing the cars at that point. Testing doesn't work that way. You either keep the same bottleneck on both platforms (manual transmission as bottleneck to acceleration), or give one test platform a major advantage by eliminating that one bottleneck, thus handicapping the other, and arbitrarily declaring it fair. It simply isn't a fair test.

Now, do I think it's more interesting to test the R DSG vs the CTR? sure....but you're further increasing the price gap between the two (if we just go by MSRP), which will probably only show the CTR to be an even better value, no?
Well thanks for the explanation. I understand what you are getting at but I'll have to think about whether I now agree lol.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:56 PM   #117
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shame the wrx still isn't available in HB. It would have been a closer call for me if the WRX was a HB.


I agree the civic is gaudy. I didn't think the civic had more room...
I agree. I traded in an 08 STI HB for my 16 Golf-R. If the STI had been available in HB, I probably would have stayed with Subaru. Though now I appreciate that the R is a grown ups hot rod.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:09 PM   #118
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My friend got one of these in championship white. For 45k, I'm not impressed. My JB4 e30 GTI has no problem keeping up when hooning around in the canyons. When we do pulls on the freeway, we're dead even until ~115 MPH, and then he'll start pulling away and really pulling away when I hit the speed limiter . For *almost* twice the amount of money as my car, I'd expect him to blow the doors off my GTI. Golf R for sure
You’re tuned though.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:27 PM   #119
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Well thanks for the explanation. I understand what you are getting at but I'll have to think about whether I now agree lol.
Yeah, I like the idea of testing best vs best and I think it has its own place, but it's a different kind of test.

Ideally, the CTR would have an auto to make a fair comparison (removes the driver component from shifting), but to really make it ideal, they'd both be a dual clutch--as I recall, Honda autos are still kinda shit, aren't they? Or maybe I'm wrong.
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