Audi TT (8S) Control Arms

I got secondary confirmation from Moog that the TT and MK7 ball joint shanks are the same. IDK why i didn't think to email them sooner.

Now to find some used TT control arms.

-Jonathan

00Zero said:

I got secondary confirmation from Moog that the TT and MK7 ball joint shanks are the same. IDK why i didn't think to email them sooner.

Now to find some used TT control arms.

-Jonathan

Click to expand...

can you tell me which moog ball joint you speak of?

I ordered a moog gti control arm and the moog tt adjustable ball joint for a 2016 tt s. what I see is a shorter shank for the tt (visually noticeable). haven't measured widths so perhaps the shape is the same.

I have a golf wagon and I'm looking forward to comparing the three ball joints. Hoping my golf ball joint does not have the caster bias.


edit: here is the ball joint provided with the moog arm, interlocked with the moog "problem solver" k500218 listed for the tt

I did some informal measurements of the shank and from that. it's plausible that the shanks measure out.

In the picture, it appears to me that the moog tt joint will extend too far....too much camber at its lowest settings, and yes you would need to drill a hole to prove that, so I gotta pass on going forward with these particular parts.

A copy of the response i got is below;

Thank you for your inquiry. Both, K500016 and K500217, have the same size tapered stud. Minor diameter = .598”, major diameter = .834”

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I just sent another email asking about the length, ill let you know what i get back.

-Jonathan

00Zero said:

A copy of the response i got is below;



I just sent another email asking about the length, ill let you know what i get back.

-Jonathan

Click to expand...

thanks.
I feel "confident" that the ball joint length is too long for a stock gti arm. maybe tt arms are shorter or attachments are closer to the center of the car?
worse case I burned $20 on the joint. I'll find some use for the arm down the road.

The spindle is the same length for both.

Yes, they are the same length, 29.84 mm or 1.175”

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Comment #6 in this thread confirmed the TT arm is shorter than the Golf by about 10mm. Which looks about the difference in your photo.

How long are the slots in the TT ball joint?

I'm only aiming for a daily derivable -1.5 to -2 deg camber on the front. Camber plates will be too harsh and i don't think there is enough room for the -1.9deg the 034 plates would give on the GSW. I also think the 034 would be a bit harsher than stock too based on a few reviews.

I really wish someone would do something like these, i had them on my mini and they added camber with no change to the ride quality with and OEM mount / bearing. Allas, i don't think there is enough room or the factory parts too big do do something like this for the MK7.

My plan once i have the time is to look for TT arms on ebay / salvage yards these have the added bonus of the solid rubber rear brushing.

-Jonathan

00Zero said:

The spindle is the same length for both.



Comment #6 in this thread confirmed the TT arm is shorter than the Golf by about 10mm. Which looks about the difference in your photo.

How long are the slots in the TT ball joint?

I'm only aiming for a daily derivable -1.5 to -2 deg camber on the front. Camber plates will be too harsh and i don't think there is enough room for the -1.9deg the 034 plates would give on the GSW. I also think the 034 would be a bit harsher than stock too based on a few reviews.

I really wish someone would do something like these, i had them on my mini and they added camber with no change to the ride quality with and OEM mount / bearing. Allas, i don't think there is enough room or the factory parts too big do do something like this for the MK7.

My plan once i have the time is to look for TT arms on ebay / salvage yards these have the added bonus of the solid rubber rear brushing.

-Jonathan

Click to expand...

Slot is roughly 16mm wide.

I compared the shanks by creating a small paper hat that fit snugly on the tt shank. It appears to sit in the same position on the mk7 shank.

the 034 mounts are the basically a "fixed camber plate", only issue is the gsw springs are big and may rub. I haven't tried the 034s but know my Vorshlag plates rubbed on one side at an adjustment of close to 1.5.

fyi if you haven't seen it, powerflex has an offset front lca bush that claims to add 0.5.

I think a good fabricator / welder could make it happen with steel arms. we have such people at our autocross club who have done such things - camber, castor, roll center adjustment etc for other cars.

odessa.filez said:

Slot is roughly 16mm wide.

I compared the shanks by creating a small paper hat that fit snugly on the tt shank. It appears to sit in the same position on the mk7 shank.

the 034 mounts are the basically a "fixed camber plate", only issue is the gsw springs are big and may rub. I haven't tried the 034s but know my Vorshlag plates rubbed on one side at an adjustment of close to 1.5.

fyi if you haven't seen it, powerflex has an offset front lca bush that claims to add 0.5.

I think a good fabricator / welder could make it happen with steel arms. we have such people at our autocross club who have done such things - camber, castor, roll center adjustment etc for other cars.

Click to expand...

That Powerflex bush sounds like the ticket IMO.

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haven't ruled out that bushing...but only claim 0.5 and I think you would need to pair it with an offset rear bushing. So that's a couple bills plus the cost of the arms plus labor to press them.

if the tt arms bolt up to the steel frame and can use the moog joint, then it's $300 per side but it sounds like you get another degree of camber adj on top of the bushing. More $$ but more robust.

The weld scenario brings more things into play for cheap but has to be thought out and diy spec'd carefully.

demi9od said:

That Powerflex bush sounds like the ticket IMO.

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Click to expand...

odessa.filez said:

haven't ruled out that bushing...but only claim 0.5 and I think you would need to pair it with an offset rear bushing. So that's a couple bills plus the cost of the arms plus labor to press them.

if the tt arms bolt up to the steel frame and can use the moog joint, then it's $300 per side but it sounds like you get another degree of camber adj on top of the bushing. More $$ but more robust.

The weld scenario brings more things into play for cheap but has to be thought out and diy spec'd carefully.

Click to expand...

You get anywhere with this odessa? I'd still be interested in an inexpensive method for adding a small amount of camber without the harshness of the 034 fixed mounts.

demi9od said:

You get anywhere with this odessa? I'd still be interested in an inexpensive method for adding a small amount of camber without the harshness of the 034 fixed mounts.

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we're still kicking it around. it shouldn't be hard, I need to put some time aside to spec a template for the welder and...

locals here suggest I research the ball joint taper as there may be opportunity to build in a custom screw-in type ball joint as part of the project. one guy managed this recently on a Japanese car, adapting a Chrysler ball joint with a compatible taper. it's worth some research but I'm not optimistic.

for just a straight camber change, not much extension is needed. by my prelim rough measurement, top of the LCA is about 5.5 inches below axle center...extension for 1.5 degrees is
~ 5.5 * tan(1.5 degree) = 0.144" = 3.66mm

so, work in progress.

odessa.filez said:

we're still kicking it around. it shouldn't be hard, I need to put some time aside to spec a template for the welder and...

locals here suggest I research the ball joint taper as there may be opportunity to build in a custom screw-in type ball joint as part of the project. one guy managed this recently on a Japanese car, adapting a Chrysler ball joint with a compatible taper. it's worth some research but I'm not optimistic.

for just a straight camber change, not much extension is needed. by my prelim rough measurement, top of the LCA is about 5.5 inches below axle center...extension for 1.5 degrees is
~ 5.5 * tan(1.5 degree) = 0.144" = 3.66mm

so, work in progress.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about extending the LCA so the ball joint is moved outwards?


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Did anyone tested these?

http://www.hardrace.com/Product_detail.asp?id=3866&Car_Make=22&Car_Model=230&Car_Type=492

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A3SBQ said:

Did anyone tested these?

http://www.hardrace.com/Product_detail.asp?id=3866&Car_Make=22&Car_Model=230&Car_Type=492

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Click to expand...

I've seen them and wondered about them. There is something similar on Megan's website:

http://meganracing.com/suspension/type-suspension-arms/euro/mrs-au-0150.html

I thought about them (megan) but don't have the wheel clearance (15" wheels). You guys on 18s might clear????

It has been pointed out to me that this does not really correct roll center - as center of ball joint is what matters in the end for that purpose.

I reached out to Megan on the part above: dimensions, do fasteners protrude below, how much camber, if any. I'll post up if I get a response.
There is a thread on TT swivels in mk5 or mk6 forum discussing this type of setup. For roll center adjustment, they say "no" but may have some benefit in terms of dynamic camber as it will likely point the LCA more downward (but pivot point remains at same height).

Given that Moog's measurements closely match mine, I'm thinking our stock taper is around 2.2 - 2.3 to 12 (popular form of taper measurement in domestic mod world). If so, I'm not seeing anything yet that can be adapted, perusing folks like Howe Racing, QA1 and other similar vendors. Closest I've seen is around 2.08 /12. So no roll center improvising yet. If anyone has suggestions, please pm me.

I wonder if TT spindles provide roll center advantage over GTI? apparently they did during mk5/mk6 according to the thread mentioned above.

For us standard Golf folks with steel spindles, I'll speculate that the GTI spindles would provide it....my thinking is based on seeing the same part number for the fenders across Golf/GTI/GSW yet lower ride height by 15mm for the GTI. I speculate that VW would not give the GTI worse geometry. Hoping I'll have the chance to measure a GTI spindle someday...but there are other considerations to be dealt with for such an adaptation.

A3SBQ said:

Are you talking about extending the LCA so the ball joint is moved outwards?


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Click to expand...

sorry for the late response, but yes that's the idea.

I've been treading water on this hoping to find a compatible ball joint to play with to go with the project...and long story short, discovered a set of lightly used TT arms at a good discount on ebay this weekend and bought them.

For the steel weld option, make a template of the flat end of the arm, use the template to cut steel of similar thickness and drill holes. Cut the actual arm areas as shown in the second pic. use the templated steel material to shift forward and out (or possibly rotate to achieve both). Have an experienced welder weld it on.

The weld idea is a viable concept, but it will take time to spec it out accurately. It may be cost effective now that there are some cheap steel arm substitutes out there. Still, there could be some error with alignment in how it measures out post-weld. once I saw the TT arms this weekend, decided to click the button instead.