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Exactly what setting to shut off engine?

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
The car is being consistent to its rules, which are to prevent damage and a run down battery.

Your problem is that you don't understand the rules, and you turn that into "it's being inconsistent"--when it's not.

Then there's your initial statement about putting it into park and then getting out and walking away, and your later denial that you ever said that. THAT's not being consistent at all, under ANY rules--known or otherwise.

So no. You may not be inconsistent, and you may not use your lack of understanding of the car's behavior to declare that you're allowed to be "inconsistent just like the car is".

That you don't understand the rules doesn't mean the car isn't rigidly adhering to the rules you simply don't know.

You have a complaint: "VW doesn't specify the conditions under which stop/start does its thing". That's valid. The rest of it all is just nonsense and noise--especially the bit about how it's "being inconsistent" when it's not.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
The car is being consistent to its rules, which are to prevent damage and a run down battery.

Your problem is that you don't understand the rules, and you turn that into "it's being inconsistent"--when it's not.

Then there's your initial statement about putting it into park and then getting out and walking away, and your later denial that you ever said that. THAT's not being consistent at all, under ANY rules--known or otherwise.

So no. You may not be inconsistent, and you may not use your lack of understanding of the car's behavior to declare that you're allowed to be "inconsistent just like the car is".

That you don't understand the rules doesn't mean the car isn't rigidly adhering to the rules you simply don't know.

You have a complaint: "VW doesn't specify the conditions under which stop/start does its thing". That's valid. The rest of it all is just nonsense and noise--especially the bit about how it's "being inconsistent" when it's not.
Look goofball, I admit to not quite understanding the logic behind what the car is doing - and VW is not doing a proper job of explaining it - but the fact of the matter is the human who drives the car should not have to sit there and wonder WTF is going on. A car should work intuitively and not make the owner wonder what esoteric item will result in which particular outcome. That's totally F'd up. YOU may be OK with that but I'm not.

YOU may not like that this one particular owner is confused or annoyed by it but that's the point of these forums! A problem exists and questions are asked to try and resolve it. Beating me up over it solves nothing other than to make yourself and others feel superior which does nothing to help.

If you're annoyed by the conversation, please ignore this thread. You're not helping. No one is forcing you to read or reply.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
the human who drives the car should not have to sit there and wonder WTF is going on.

I don't disagree with that. It should be documented to the user. But you seemed unable to grasp that something rational IS going on. Your not knowing the rationale behind the behavior doesn't change that.

What's more, you started this entire thread by saying that "I put it into park, it turned off, I got out of the car and walked away"--and THAT is pure IRrational thought pattern and behavior (behavior that you later denied describing, for some reason).

No one here can fathom that you thought the fact that "it turned off" (by that you mean the engine stopped running) meant "it knew I was finished with it" as opposed to "I'm simply sitting here waiting for a friend, continuing to want heat or A/C and some radio". Why you thought the car divined this out of thin air, confuses everyone--because it's not logical or rational. You've always had to turn a car off before; why would you ever think it's different today? The first time this happened to you, why didn't you question THAT behavior? The driver always has the responsibility of turning the car on AND off, deliberately. I'd be worried if the entire car system shut itself down by itself, same as if I pushed the Stop button. What if that happened while I was driving? That's a complete unknown, and not the desired behavior at all under any circumstances.

What made you think the car can read your mind?

Only when it stopped turning the engine off did you question this, as you continued to think that it should somehow read your mind and turn the entire car off when you put it into Park for the purpose of leaving the car. When you put your question to the world with this irrational expectation, everyone was confused.

And of course, the real answer was and is that the car is behaving in a programmed manner. You didn't want to believe that, simply because (a) you didn't understand the programming, and more importantly (b) you continued to assume that the car was supposed to divine your intention and shut the entire system down automatically whenever you wanted to leave the car.

The entire start/stop behavior is documented somewhere. VW's videos do outline 5 or 6 items that the system checks on, such as state of charge of the battery, requirement for heat or window defrost, etc. If the owner's manual doesn't have it, contact VW Customer Care or ask your dealer service people or spend the money for a day's worth of VW service manuals online and poke around.

But don't hold your breath for some magical button to tell the system to divine when you're leaving the car and turn itself off without you pushing the Stop button.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
So the first week I have had my 2018 R it was set right - stop the car, put it in Park and the engine shuts off. I get out, lock it and go about my day.

Where did you ever get the notion in the first place that the behavior you saw during the first week was "right" or correct--especially given that you can't find any mention of any of this in the owner's manual???
 

admiralackbar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Montreal, QC
Which part of press the stop button to shut off the car completely are you having an issue with?

My engine sometimes stops when I put in Park sometimes not. From the first day. There is no 'right' setup from the factory that has somehow changed. I press the stop button and I get out of the car and go on with my life.

aerospace engineer

Nevermind.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
One trip at below freezing temps and another trip at the height of summer--those are not "identical" trips no matter how hard you want them to be.

At least, not to the stop/start mechanism they're not.




See above. Different conditions generate different outcomes.




If VW does not document this to the end user, shame on VW.

Nonetheless, it is what's happening.

As they put mild hybrid stuff into future generations and we're not worrying about the SOC of a small 12v battery, some of these differences will go away. But you'll still have the engine running in the depths of a harsh winter in order to provide heat, whereas it wouldn't be running on a spring day.

You will still see differences thanks to the stop/start mechanism.



Shame on VW, then.

But frankly, I can easily see the system shutting the engine down when you put it into Park. If the 12v battery is fully charged and the climate control system doesn't need to run much if at all, then your putting it into Park is a clear signal that We Will Be Here For Awhile. It's sort of like sitting at a traffic light waiting for the signal to turn, but with a clearer signal that we're not moving soon at all.

So I can see it shutting the *engine* down, but the *system* is still on and in a state of readiness. (In fact, in the Prius they have a light that tells you when everything's good to go--it's called Ready. The system is ready, go ahead and drive.) As has been pointed out, it's up to YOU, the pilot in command, to shut the *system* down.

The system is not the engine. That's old school. Old school was different:
Engine off? Great, we're definitely not going anywhere. (Not so anymore, not with stop/start.) Oh, let me get that key out of the ignition... (Not so anymore, not with Kessy.)

I think the technology has surpassed your willingness to accept it. The engine may not be running, but the car is ready to drive away as you take your foot off the pedal. Or as soon as you take it out of Park. All without the engine running.

Engine off does not mean system off. Does not mean that you can get out of the car and go inside. You, the pilot, must *actively* turn the system Off.

As this is VW's first foray into this, I can imagine they missed it in the user's guide. They took the 2017 owner's manual and "adapted" it for 2018, and the documentation people probably never got the full engineering message on what's different about the stop/start mechanism.

Have you looked at the relevant section of the Know Your VW web site? They have a video. I know, it's more RTFM. So be it.

Plus, were I you, I'd be bugging my dealer service department for any documentation *they* have on all of this.

This is not what's happening here in sunny Southern California - I assure you my two reference trips were identical. One was not sunny and the other freezing.


Pretty much what I've been saying but I want to know why so *I* can adapt to it and make the car do what *I* want it to. Yes, if this is scattershot and esoteric functionality, shame on VW for not being more precise in the manual. I shouldn't have to try to understand it. It should just work and work consistently.


So earlier you kind of called me out for appearing to expect the car to divine what I wanted which you indicated was somewhat foolhardy on my part but here you are using that very idea to explain what the car is doing! So if we pretend for a second the car is not doing that but rather following a logic diagram of cause and effect, I'm basically trying to discern the causes that arrive at an effect and KNOW what to expect. Sadly the manual does not do a good job of providing that information and, based on my reading of it, the car does not do what I expect in spite of the manual's verbiage.


I just got out of a C6 Corvette that did not shut off completely unless you put it in Reverse. Otherwise the system remained charged until the battery was depleted. I'm well aware of this paradigm.


Not correct. I'm an aerospace engineer and well aware of how all forms of technology work. But thanks for assuming I'm unable to adapt to new technology.


That's only part of the equation here. One - the car sometimes shuts the engine off when shifting into Park and other times not when I can see no valid reason that should happen at all. Two - the start/stop function sometimes works and sometimes does not even though the conditions are the same in each trip (again, not sunny/freezing.) And I never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button. The original premise was "Hey, the engine shut off when shifting into Park but now does not. How do I do that again?" but now it happens or doesn't happen and there's no clear reason why. Why my frustration at that seems to annoy you I do not understand.


I have not yet looked at any VW videos but will. At some point I'll have to bring it in and ask though I don't have high hopes anyone at a dealer or dealer service center will know any more than anyone else given how lame most dealers are these days.
No two trips are identical nor can the manual discuss every possible variant. Did you catch the same light for the exact same time? Was the temp exactly alike?

The bottom line is very simple - is there any reference in the manual that says "put your car into park and walk away - the car will always shut down completely. No need to press the ignition button"?

No? Gee, then maybe you shouldn't expect that.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
...What made you think the car can read your mind?
He recently saw a rerun of "Firefox" and thought to himself (or to the car) "If Clint Eastwood can control a plane while thinking in Russian, then I can control this car in German. Aus! AUS!"

The manual tells you how to operate the car. It cannot discuss every unexpected conceiveable possibility.

If this was normal operation then the manual would say "place the car into park, open the door and get out. The car will shut off automatically"

Is this possible in the future? Of course - the Mercedes puts the car into park if it is stopped, foot on brake and the driver's door is opened. It says so in the manual.

VW could easily program this to the car - "put foot on brake, shift into park and open door shuts down car" but that is not how it is programmed.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
The bottom line is very simple - is there any reference in the manual that says "put your car into park and walk away - the car will always shut down completely. No need to press the ignition button"?

No? Gee, then maybe you shouldn't expect that.

I would argue quite the reverse, that the manual is VERY specific about how to (a) start the car, and how to (b) stop the car so you can exit it and walk away.

I know my 2017 manual is. And of course, it's chock full of two or three pages of legal warnings before they get to what they want to tell you.

But even weirder is that anyone who has driven any number of years would not be asking himself, "I don't have a physical key in a lock, so how do I do the equivalent of turning the ignition off so I can get out and go inside? Surely it can't be simply putting the car into Park and that's it!"

This reminds me of whomever it was who never read the manual and never knew how Kessy worked with respect to locking the car from the outside--he mistakenly ass-u-me-d that the only way to lock it was to take the remote out of his pocket and hit the button.

The takeaway from this is, apparently it takes MORE than a rocket scientist to own and drive a simple modern day Golf.
 

71camaro

New member
Location
Maryland
Between OP's posts and avatar, he's quickly become my least favorite member of this site.


Literally no car are you supposed to up and walk away without pressing off, or turning the key. This car, if the start/stop activates in park, will eventually shut all systems down so dopey people don't just leave the car in a semi-running condition.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
I would argue quite the reverse, that the manual is VERY specific about how to (a) start the car, and how to (b) stop the car so you can exit it and walk away.

I know my 2017 manual is. And of course, it's chock full of two or three pages of legal warnings before they get to what they want to tell you.

But even weirder is that anyone who has driven any number of years would not be asking himself, "I don't have a physical key in a lock, so how do I do the equivalent of turning the ignition off so I can get out and go inside? Surely it can't be simply putting the car into Park and that's it!"

This reminds me of whomever it was who never read the manual and never knew how Kessy worked with respect to locking the car from the outside--he mistakenly ass-u-me-d that the only way to lock it was to take the remote out of his pocket and hit the button.

The takeaway from this is, apparently it takes MORE than a rocket scientist to own and drive a simple modern day Golf.
We're saying the same thing in different ways.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.

Sure you are.

Do you continue to insist that the initial behavior you observed, albeit not documented in any way AND against everything you've ever known about how to start and stop a car, is the "right" way?
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
Welcome to the forum.

Just because we're right and you were a bit confused doesn't mean we don't like you.

You've been here long enough to know that at least three of the people you cited often have dissenting opinions on a variety of topics.

Up until now, I never even looked if you were a new member and - quite frankly - it makes no difference.
 
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