2017 GTi PP at VIR

TXBDan said:

A couple more unsolicited thoughts for you guys:

I agree an oil cooler sounds like the answer based on what you guys are saying. Can you/have you monitored intake air temps? I wonder how the intercooler is holding up. On my mk6 upgrading the intercooler helped on track, but not sure about mk7s.

I used to fuss around with HLT and TrackAddict with external GPS pucks (Dual) and a bluetooth obd2 interface. It's just a fiddly mess imo. I'd recommend getting an Aim Solo and being done with it.

You absolutely need -3.5deg of front camber in these cars. If you zero out the front toe the insides won't wear significantly in daily use. Set it and forget it.

I'd recommend keeping the same wheels/tires at all four corners because you want the ability to rotate wheels/tires, especially so on a FWD car. I know FWD guys that rotate every half day.

Before you go too nuts modifying a nice daily driver, consider a dedicated track rat. It'll be better, safer, and cheaper.

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IAT was definitely high for me on stock power at 90F after 10 mins on track. I got an intercooler and it resolved a lot of the issues, but the intercooler install was a PITA and the clips didn't line up 100% perfectly, so I used fireproof foam to fill the crevices and stop all the noise coming from the intercooler/radiator sandwich slapping around.

I wouldn't run -3.5 on the street. Not for wear reasons (toe = wear), but for turning the car into a train. At -2.2 I already get a lot of meandering on the highway, especially on directional tires. I've driven a car with -3.2 on the street before, and on not-so-great roads, you had to have a lot of focus to keep the car from wandering.

You're right, rotating tires helps keep life in them, but if you have a dedicated track set, does it matter much? Just swap the fronts out when they wear, and the rears should last 2 sets of fronts. Your wear rate overall is no different.

A track rat is the better approach long term. An actual sports car being turned into a track rat is the way to go. This is just an econobox compromise car, in almost every way. A well setup miata will easily make us all look foolish. Personally, I plan to eventually just buy a spec car. I miss my 370z, so I might go for a spec Z car, or a spec boxster. If not those, probably just a lotus. Sidenote; the 370z was so easy to push to the limit on track and be fast. It just talks to you so well. The GTI on the other hand is always a fight on corner entry, but easier on exit. I can never seem to get throttle while on brake, just right. I'm almost always 3 feet too soon or 3 feet too late from the apex. The few occasions I've gotten it right, I've been able to pass much higher HP cars on the inside with ease. 370TQ is helpful .

jmason said:

As for adjustable camber plates, wouldn’t you have to get an alignment to adjust toe after each change?

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Yep, but most people I've run into don't care. They set it to max negative, get it aligned, and then adjust down to -1.5 and just make sure it's not insanely out of spec. Some vehicles toe in and some toe out when you reduce camber. I'm not sure which way the GTI goes, but if I had to bet, I'd say more negative = more toe out. In theory, if you set yourself to -3 up front, and then go down to -1.5 for street, you'd get some toe in. Not a bad thing for the street. How much is the question.

victorofhavoc said:

Until I figure out what I'm going to do about an oil cooler setup I'm running heavier oil.

I was planning on a 17x9 for front only. I'd run a 17x8 rear, since I don't see too much of a need to run square. Keeps things cheaper for me too .

Yeah, they definitely need -3 or more. -3.5 if on a Hoosier seems appropriate. Above -2.5 on the street though is a lot. Adjustable front plates would allow you to change for track and street, but having driven on the street with adjustable plates before, I wouldn't do it again. My compromise was the 034d+ mounts and even they're a bit rough at times. I wonder what kind of camber I'll get when I add the css swivels....

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I have 034 dynamic plates. NVH is decent unless you are on crappy road surface.

Not sure I can do CSS swivels with SuperPro LCA 018K and the 034 camber plates. Toe kills tires way faster than camber.

I think I’m going to look into 50w oil for track events only based on my most recent oil temps.

Mini7 said:

I have 034 dynamic plates. NVH is decent unless you are on crappy road surface.

Not sure I can do CSS swivels with SuperPro LCA 018K and the 034 camber plates. Toe kills tires way faster than camber.

I think I’m going to look into 50w oil for track events only based on my most recent oil temps.

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Agreed on the 034 plates. Overall, I like them.

I couldn't find much data on different weight oils past 100C, but it's a linear nature so I extrapolated to determine viscosity. If you assume VW intended the viscosity of the oil to be optimal at 212F, 60W oil has the same viscosity at 248F. 50W would be about 230F

jmason said:

Which one?

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The dual 160. The one that Harry’s recommends.

Mini7 said:

VIR 034 RSB.

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So what was your verdict after a track day on the new RSB?

You definitely need a bigger RSB to run on track. It helps the car rotate. I’m running the softer of the two settings and I can still get the car to push in certain corners if I carry enough speed in. The 034 RSB has helped overall balance. Slow tight corners are not this car’s strength.

On a wet and cold VIR my car was super loose. Be very careful with inputs. You will get oversteer with even the slightest lift of the throttle.

Coil Over Spring Rate

Ok so I’m considering that it is time for a set of coil overs for the track.

The current plan is:
Front - 400lbs/inch
Rear - 450lbs/inch

I want to run a stiffer rear spring to aid front traction and the fact that the rear is a divorced spring coilover setup.
With the 034 RSB on the softer setting this would mean that I will have plenty of rotation.

Would be interested in recommendations for track oriented coilovers.

The Bilstein PSS10 seem to work well for a DD that sees the track occasionally. The ability to change the shock damping (rebound I think) by turning a knob is very handy. These are reasonably priced in comparison to Ohlins and other full-on race-ready setups.

jmason said:

The Bilstein PSS10 seem to work well for a DD that sees the track occasionally. The ability to change the shock damping (rebound I think) by turning a knob is very handy. These are reasonably priced in comparison to Ohlins and other full-on race-ready setups.

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Do you know what the front and rear spring rates are?

I do not.

And..........???

I’ll buy you a beer if you ever come to run at VIR.

Ohlins are 400/268 lb/in spring rates

crild said:

Ohlins are 400/268 lb/in spring rates

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That is there current setup.

They are coming out with a 400lb square setup for FWD GTi and 400/450 for the R

I need to measure the rear control arm to check the motion ratio or leverage with the divorced spring setup.

Are you running Öhlins?

Anyone running KW V2 Clubsports?